Feeds are a combination of communities into one, like multireddit or mastodon tags.
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Neat, it federates. Seems to work similar to a normal community, so it should be easy to follow these feeds from Lemmy.
That’s cool, i hope lemmy federates with it in the future :D
While the actor is a
Groupand you can follow it, no posts areAnnounced. All the federation of posts is still driven by the individual communities within the feed. You’ll need to modify Lemmy to add the logic of subscribing to the constituent communities when you receive anAccept.Also there are
AddandRemoveactivities sent out whenever the feed owner manages the list of communities within which would need to be handled.Documentation still to come…
Ah its more complicated than I thought. We also have a similar or same feature on the roadmap, when I get to that it can federate with Piefed.
For the federating its a new kind of AP actor. I’ll be putting in a FEP for it in the near future, but its basically a “Group” that only cares about the “Following” collection.
You can see example json for the AP interactions here: https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/src/branch/main/docs/activitypub_examples/feeds
The AP interactions for a Feed are:
- Send a Follow request for a Feed
- Accept a Follow request (this is automatic for public feeds)
- Reject a Follow request (this is automatic for private feeds)
- Announce an Add of a Community to a Feed
- Announce a Remove of a Community from a Feed
- Send a Delete of a Feed to subscribers
Hmm so the
Feedactor mainly consists of a following collection and uses Add/Remove activities. This really sounds like it should be aCollectionand not an actor.Possibly. At the end of the day it’s all just JSON.
Here is more detail - https://codeberg.org/JollyDevelopment/fep/src/branch/jollydev/fep-1d80/fep/1d80/fep-1d80.md
Reminder that Piefed’s patreon is only at $13 a month. If you have the means, consider donating to the project to say thanks for all of the work and effort being put into it :)
To anyone not wanting to give on Patreon, there is also: https://liberapay.com/PieFed/
100%. Rimu, jollyroberts and andrew are all amazing people, providing both piefed and .social itself for free. They work very hard, and hell, the feeds PR was only created 4 days ago, and pushed today!
Piefed and its devs deserve way more :D
This is huge. Thank you to everyone involved.
Trying it right now, it’s pretty sweet
new blaze account? 😭
This will reduce the discourse quality significantly as it will bring in more drive-by comments from people not subscribed to the specific communities in question.
I hope there will be some way for communities to opt-out from this or maybe better require them to opt-in.
c/all is worse imo and with feeds you will at least have control over picking topics you’re interested in unlike c/all. We should be focusing on opting out from c/all more as it causes far more damage and it’s been that way for a long time unlike feeds on such a small platform that just got the feature implemented.
Also the opt-in would be a great way to KILL the entire feature that’s been the most hyped up and requested feature across the entire threadiverse. BRUH
Imagine having all communities opted out from c/all by default. That would be stupid and make everything hard to access.
Opt-out on the other hand for public feeds specifically is something that I support. But then good luck having that supported on lemmy where almost all communities exist.
E: c/all is just one monolithic feed forced on all users for better perspective about the issue. With custom feeds much like with communities you pick out your interests and follow them specifically and it’s all optional. I don’t see how it could cause more damage than this.
Opt-out on the other hand for public feeds specifically is something that I support. But then good luck having that supported on lemmy where almost all communities exist.
Lemmy already has a setting
community.hiddenso that communities dont show up on the All feed. But this is not easy to access at the moment. I can fix that.Oooooooh, love u.
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Yes having that option more easily accessible would be much apprechated.
Yes the All feed has the same problem, but posts need to be significantly more popular for them to even register in the All feed. Thus most small communities currently fly under the radar of the All feed, and if they do get a popular post it nearly always becomes a moderation nightmare.
Hashtags on Mastodon have a similar problem, having given rise to the universally dreaded “reply guy” issue.
I think most people on Lemmy haven’t really thought this through and what the implications of such a feature are once it becomes widely used.
And no, the one that is doing the opt-in is the person creating the feed without asking the community that is being forcefully opted-in. Giving them the option to veto that is better than having them realize that they have been opted into something they don’t agree with by being flooded with trolls and off-topic comments.
Im still confused on what your worry is? That people will reply to a post without reading the comments?
No, the problem is that people that have no relation to the community start commenting and getting into arguments.
Say for example a /c/anarchism gets added to a “politics” feed. And suddenly you have a bunch of people that have no clue (or even a pretty false idea) commenting on posts in the anarchism community because they think it is just another politics posts. Then others that are actual members of that community start getting into largely off-topic arguments with these commenters and when moderators step in you shortly after get complaints from people about being “censored for their totally valid opinion about politics” and so on.
More like reply to posts without regard for its host community. In other words, context collapse where the community is the main context.
Wouldnt each post still indicate what community its on though?
It’s more about users not giving a damn which can already be seen with users using ‘all’ feed downvoting or responding with unfitting comments to things that they should have just ignored but didn’t because it showed up to them.
If the user visits feed expecting specific content just like they’d expect from community and treat it as such there’s a good chance they’d contribute but not in positive way.
The feature is in a testing phase to find bugs and collect ideas and will be improved with time so such problems would hopefully be minimised. In which direction will the feature progress is something I don’t know and from my understanding the devs don’t fully know either but they’re definitely interested in allowing more control over things like community opting out (or in?) from a specific feeds as a second option besides opting out from the feature completely. In what form the mods will have the tools to control to which feeds their communities belong I don’t know but there’s a lot of interest in it.
I appreciate your words of caution. Remember this feature is very new and will no doubt get a lot more finesse added in future. There’s no point building some baroque all singing-all-dancing perfect thing unless we’re sure people will use it and by releasing earlier we get valuable feedback which determines whether we continue building that feature at all, etc. It’s very bare-bones at the moment.
Have you considered a UX similar to old reddit for this? where you hover over the join button with the mouse and it gives you the option to create a feed or add and remove to a feed?
I actually checked multiple times and could not find it (but admittedly maybe that is my mistake and not a real problem with discoverability).
I agree. Multi communities are great. But managing a community’s connectivity with such features makes a lot of sense too!
Possibly. (Subscribing to a feed does actually subscribe you to all the communities in the feed. So technically they are not drive-by comments by non-members. But I see what you mean.)
Discoverability is a huge huge problem with all federated platforms and this will significantly alleviate that.
If I don’t misunderstand then you can only add communities to these feeds that are already known to your instance, thus I don’t really see how this solves the federated discoverability issues which are ultimately due to instances not being aware of each other at all.
The feed creator needs to know about the communities so they can type/paste the community address in, yeah. This feature takes the expert fediverse landscape knowledge contained in the heads of the terminally online and makes it available to more casual/new users.
Once a community is known to an instance it is available via the search feature. Thus this really doesn’t improve discoverability at all assuming the person adding it to the feed is already using the instance.
What it however does is moving the conscious choice of looking for and joining a community to an opaque follow feed button that makes someone subscribe to a lot of communities they know nothing about other than that someone else thought they somehow fit to a single word tag (and it is worse than hashtags on Mastodon as it is not the person making the post that adds them, but a totally unrelated 3rd party).
Less goo!
Fedipie.dbon1.com? We have the technology for it.
Does posting to a feed post to all the communities in it?
Feed isn’t a place you can post to. It just collects posts from different communities into one feed/stream.
This is great but I still don’t think it fixed the issue that both softwares have, what do you do about wanting to share the same content between multiple same named communities without spamming?
I still really like the idea that communities can choose to federate with each other. You post to privacy at ML and LW and it shows as one post in both communities.
Yes, that is high on the agenda.
Is there a plan to implement the possibility of a downvote free experience? Kind of like an instance disabling downvotes does on native lemmy?
Yes, that’s a setting that admins can choose for the entire instance. Also if downvotes are on then at the community level mods can choose whether to accept downvotes from members, the current instance, trusted instances or everywhere.
This doesn’t appeal to me at all. The whole point of Lemmy is that I can avoid certain instances that have oppressive admins.
PieFed (and the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect iirc) can already do this, by blocking all users from the instance. It works much better than the Lemmy equivalent that would be better named as a community muting, since it still allows users to troll you in communities located on other instances.
I don’t want to block the users though, I just don’t want to be subject to their authority. Which means I can’t use their communities. Combining them into one big bag subverts my autonomy to do so.
???
Just don’t use public feeds and have your own private feeds split into topics you’re interested in where you don’t have communities you dislike included. You have all the autonomy you need. No one tells you to subscribe to that one specific feed that doesn’t curate the communities in the way you like. Just use it to organise your own subscriptions to have them by topics or catered for different moods of the day.
Maybe I worded it poorly, I know I can still do my thing, but I’m explaining why I would never use this unless it excluded certain instances.
I missed this at first as well, but the “Create a Feed” button (colored almost the same as the background for some odd reason, using the PieFed theme) is accessible to you as a user, not simply an admin. So if you wanted let’s say technology@lemmy.world and technology@beehaw.org but not technology@lemmy.ml, then you could do that. You probably should name it something appropriate like technology2, but mainly I mean that you are not limited to Feeds created by other people: the whole point of this is that now you can create your own (if you want to that is, or perhaps someone will have already done so).
Thanks, I assumed they were centrally created but if they are user customizable this does make it a bit more appealing, although at that point it’s not hugely different from the way subscriptions work now. Could have some use cases though.
So do I understand correctly that these are identical to Topics, except customizable without requiring backend changes?
Sweet!
