Thermostats are easy to change out. So this isn’t a huge deal. But I don’t love the idea that tech isn’t built to be self-hosted or maintained in any meaningful way. If you’re not shipping an open source version of your software when you close up, you’re an asshole.
Yeah, self hosting isn’t for most lay people if it’s just a GitHub repo. But GitHub repos quickly become adopted by nerds like me who build tooling around it that eventually let lay people self host software with the click of a button.
Yeah, self hosting isn’t for most lay people if it’s just a GitHub repo…
If ecobee put their backend code on GitHub, I bet it would be self hostable with docker within a week.
This is pretty much what happened with HomeAssistant. Tying all the integrations together in one platform.
It’s now at the stage of “copy these files to a pi/buy this box we make”
The overall aim is to integrate most open things, and find ways to work with/around more closed off products.
16 years? That’s like 8 separate Google project lifetimes.
That’s 591 Mooches haha
They just killed my nest cameras, but the thermostat is still supported. I was planning on replacing it with an ecobee this year just because API access is kind of a pain but this is giving me some second thoughts.
Why is nobody here asking for a local API? Are we as techies just accepting that this NEEDS a server component run by the manufacturer?
Yeah. The server and software should be open source and API available. That way we actually own the system and don’t have to just toss it out if someone goes out of business.
Fucking ulock for example suddenly wants me to create an account and sign in to their website to use my front door lock! What the fuck is that! We need consumer protections for this sort of shit. I didn’t sign up to giving away when I come in and when I go out of my house! WTF to the max!
The company is offering affected users a 30 percent discount on a new Ecobee thermostat, valid for up to 15 thermostats.
…
While I very strongly agree with your message, I have to say that this is one of the least fitting usernames I’ve ever seen.
The company should be giving away new ones, but that’s none of my business [Kermit meme]
Why do we allow this? Companies that contribute to operate should be severely penalized if they don’t A)) continue to support legacy products B)) offer FULL replacement if servers/apps shutdown or C)) open source EVERYTHING is they are going to try to kill a device.
This is why I’m all in for non-“smart crap”, I don’t even have inductive heating stove top because they never have basic knobs.
Long clicking on [3] then + + + + + + to boil your f eggs? No thanks.
That is a horrible argument.
Just get a non shit induction stove
Yeah I guess I’ll consider it one day when they will be cheap enough, but now even the stupid-UI ones are fairly expensive and the knob ones quite expensive (thanks for all induction knob pists btw 😁).
My mom has an induction stove that has knobs.
Definitely a thing, Miele even has a device filter for that feature.
Neff has a (magnetic/removable*) knob as well. (* Which is a great idea in theory. Unless you have kids. First it’s great because they can’t start the cooktop on their own. But then you are constantly looking for the knob. A friend nearly got insane…His daughter “accidentally” took the whole fucking thing on a schooltrip to France…HOW? That’s why I have the Siemens one with touch… It’s okayish touchwise and it works…)
Wow so cheap too 😅
Miele is never cheap but nobody ever paid suggested retail either, I’m sure.
Long clicking on [3] then + + + + + + to boil your f eggs?
A lot of them have a terrible UI. But that’s far from all of them. Enough have sliders. Sometimes one with a pan detection. Sometimes a slider per area.
It’s just on and then hold b for boost now. It automatically detects which slot you have placed your pan on and selects that for you. But I get your point…
Induction is great 👍
I got the Frigidaire professional 36” induction and it does have knobs 😎
I will never understand the appeal for cloud based home automation.
All the spying aside, 16 years and your thermostat is no longer supported sounds ok until you think about how if you replace everything with cloud based equivalents you are always going to be having to replace things going out of service. I think its funny that you pay more for a device that lasts for lot less (How many thermostats have people seen fail?). I guess the companies are happy?
That’s why one uses an industry standard that is brand-independent,operates offline by design and does not require a central component besides a power supply.
Sounds like utopia?
This standard has been available since 1990 in its archaic form, since 2002 in its current form. It is downwards compatible and over 400 companies worldwide are part of the standard. HomeAssistant, ioBroker, openHAB,etc. all support it directly and there are multiple crossover gateways with other standards like DMX, ModBus, Dali,etc. exist. And no, it’s components are not more expensive once you look at the TCO.
For fucks sake, people, use KNX.
(PS: There are even a few open-source/DIY components available)
2002 is pretty archaic in technological terms.
So is windows and Linux if you just look at the year they were introduced.
Just because something is backwards compatible doesn’t mean it does not get updates/improved.
And tbh, a light switch does not need that much improvement technology wise.
Fair enough. I didn’t read it as being currently maintained in your original post.
The thing is: The standard itself is rather well designed and didn’t need too much updates (they just extended the possible packet contents in terms of possible parameters - which technically isn’t that necessary as you can fall back to ASCI).
The last major updates were more towards extending functions (KNX over RF), connecting locations via IP tunnel, and securing the packets themselves (which is not really necessary for single household installations but VERY much for multi tennant installations).
The major strength of KNX is the bus packet system itself - as the packets are standardized there are only a few attack avenues. An attacker could flood the bus with packets, try to update with fraudulent code (if none did put a password on it) or try to put fraudulent content in a module that accepts ASCI packets. The problem is the access - the attacker would need physical access or the IP gateway (if existing)would need to be unsecured towards the internet… In the end it is a fairly resilient piece of software.
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Get a few components (e.g. Actors, a sensor), a gateway (USB is enough for the start,they often go cheap if you buy used,got mine for 10 bucks) ,a power supply (Meanwell is a good idea) and the free version of the ETS programming tool. (The ETS is the only downside of the system - it’s expensive especially for larger installs)
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No,it isn’t. But no open and local solution will be - but you pay for that in terms of long term usability, resilience and data. It’s a choice a mature customer needs to make. Be cloud and manufacturer reliant,invest the time to do it properly or pay someone to do it.
And KNX.org works for me(even tried it with a VPN to be sure) - and do you really think that a standard that is supported by the largest companies in the field(Siemens, ABB, Bosch, Schneider, etc.) and has multi-billion of installations in professional buildings alone per year is not for the long term?
For fucks sake, people, use KNX.
I thought you’d say OpenTherm!
Haha, no. But I know someone who was part of the OpenTherm development.
To quote him:
OpenTherm exists because Plumbers don’t trust Sparkys and Sparkys don’t trust plumbers.
OpenTherm is easy to install but “stupid” as hell and not adaptable to modern needs mostly, especially if you consider modern heating concepts like passively heated houses, heat pumps,etc.
That’s different from KNX (or Modbus in that regard) - They are much broader in their appeal. Singule use/walled garden systems are always a bad idea,imho.
OpenTherm is easy to install but “stupid” as hell
Ah, good but not nice to know. OpenTherm is really popular in the Netherlands. Not nice because I know loads who have such a thermostat. Oh well.
The good thing is: You can easily replace OpenTherm with KNX. Afaik there are Gateways that mimic Opentherm towards the heater so you can use KNC for the actual control.
And to add another unpopular opinion:
A smart temperature control is the one I never ever need to use. Because then the room always has the temperature I want.
If you have a home office or someone is at home 24/7, then yes. Otherwise it would make sense to reduce the heating/cooling of the house when no one is home and setting the correct temp again when people are about to get back. Saves quite a few bucks.
The system does exactly that - But that is done automatically without intervention.
The system recognises by checking on our devices and the presence detectors if we are at home. If we aren’t it reduces the temperature.* Then it looks into our calendars when we can be expected to be back and increases the temperature accordingly (additionally once we enter a certain Geofence).
*:The overall heating effort is also based on the current and expected weather and sun-influx,as I have some rooms that basically heat themselves when the sun is out. The system is using that effort to adjust shades (e.g. it would allow a lower living room temperature in the morning after we left when it knows that there will likely be a sunny afternoon heating the room without the need to add external heat)
This is what I mean with smart: A smart system is only smart if the user doesn’t have to fiddle around with it. Everything else is a remote.
(My next goal is to add personalised heating. I want the system to recognise who is/comes home and adjust the temperature accordingly as my wife wants other temperatures as I do. O can do it room based, e.g. the kid’s room is adjusted according to the kid being there, but overall I am not quite there yet)
Honestly this makes me feel that not adopting IOT is still a good idea. Yep I am probably leaving some efficiency on the table, but I get more reliability in exchange.
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IOT can work without any cloud service. I have some things automated at home and everything works locally. To control it remotely I use a VPN.
Yeah I know that is a thing I might even be able to figure it out, but I am a bit of Luddite. By choice though, I have an okay understanding of tech but I don’t see the advantage in many cases. I much prefer the reliability and simplicity of legacy tech. Also I am much more likely to be able to fix it myself if needed.
Before sears took a shit, I had to fix my mom’s range. It was built some time in the 90s. The manual has a trouble shooting guide. I was able to call the sears help line and buy just the part I need and get it mailed to me. Everything was designed to be fixed and there was legacy company support.
Even with an IOT LAN. Repair of the hardware and often the firmware is not possible. You just have to buy a whole new expensive smart thing. I don’t like that.
There are options. Some IOT things are even DIY with open specifications and open firmware, so you can build and repair them yourself. And a lot of times it’s the cheapest option, way way way cheaper than the usual IOT stuff, as most electronics used for IOT are dirt cheap.
I haven’t really started on top of the open movement. Other than to bitch about John Deere. I love their tractors, fucking hate their proprietary software and their nefarious data collection.
Well that is not entirely true. The bitching about JD is true, but I have tried to stay informed on right to repair. But I don’t seek out an open solution to things I don’t need. I am all for GNU/GPL and have been using Linux for 20ish year.
I assume a lot of this open IOT is Arduino based everything I have read about Arduino I like, I just can be bothered to learn how to use and program it.
I have learned that I prefer not have to much tech, I have only had a smartphone for 4 years. I got one mostly because it became near impossible to navigate life with out one. Is seem like everyone wants to do things though apps now.
The article (which nobody here bothered to open) says they’ll still function as “dumb” thermostats, so actually it’s less of a big deal.
Most thermostats would fail in that timeframe. Our original Nest thermostat failed this year because the connection that turns on the furnace wore out or became thin. Caused our furnace to click on and off repeatedly and ruined a relay on the furnace’s circuit board. Had to replace the thermostat and the furnace circuit board. Costly repair. Upgrade your thermostat before it wears out.
That’s why I have KNX.
