The atmosphere is so heated, and the statements are getting more and more extreme. Let’s just assume Harris wins the election. After a campaign like this, how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
My dad is on his death bed, I haven’t spoken to him in years, because he’s full on MAGA. It breaks my heart that I lost my dad to that cult and that I’ll lose him forever soon, but I will never forgive him for supporting the scum that is proud he stole womens rights.
So to answer your question, being sad and waiting for tomorrow.
Your father is going to pass away and you’re really gunna let politics affect your relationship with him like that?
Looks like you’re the one in a cult. I feel bad for your pops
GTFO with that “politics” bullshit. It stopped being a purely political difference when Trump made it about racism, sexism, and all other possible forms of bigotry. It stopped being about purely bigotry when he tried to stage a coup.
Above and beyond, you don’t know their life. Maybe they needed a life-saving abortion and their father gleefully cackled when that right was effectively removed in many states. Maybe they’re black and their father bragged about the shootings of black folks, they’re latin and he chortled over the deportation rhetoric, or they’re Muslim and he rubbed the travel bans in their face. Maybe they have/had long COVID and their father gave it to them because “it’s a hoax.” There are so many reasons for cutting MAGA idiots out of your life and Trump’s political policy is the least of them
Unfortunately, when “politics” equals “whether certain people deserve basic human rights,” it’s not a minor issue. I don’t keep company with people who think I’m subhuman.
You say ‘politics’ like it is some trivial thing. Politics involves beliefs on personhood, human rights, racism, equity, crime and punishment, and fundamental ideas about morality. I think it is totally appropriate to make judgments about a person’s character based on their politics.
“Someone has an abusive relationship and you’re really gunna deny them the right to abuse you like that?”
That’s how you sound, Alice.
“My political opinion is I am going to strangle the person you love the most to death in front of you while you watch, and if you don’t let me have my political opinion, then who’s the real bad guy here?”
Make anything ok using this one neat trick!
Yeah, I really can’t understand this. I have family and friends who vote differently to me, but I would never let that get in the way of our relationship, and I can’t understand the mentality of people who do.
I mean, if someone I knew turned out to be a full on neo-Nazi, then I’d steer well clear. But if someone just votes for the other main party to the one I do, who cares?
💯👌
If my father was on his death bed, chances are I’d put most of it behind me and would ignore a lot of past transgressions.
OPs actions are a bit extreme. That being said, there isn’t much that separates a neo-nazi from a trump supporter in my mind. I can’t imagine anyone supporting him that isnt a complete piece of shit, and it is 100% a valid reason for cutting ties with people.
My wife and son are from another country, my children aren’t safe in American schools, my wife and daughter have less rights than a man in America, my 13 year old son was being bombarded constantly by what a “man should be” racist christofacist bullshit. My parents vote against my family, so they are no longer a part of it. We moved to my wife’s home country and never looked back.
I love my parents, but their hate for others was stronger than their love for my wife and kids. They can die alone with their red hats on.
Politics change, but blood is thicker than water. The way people are writing off family instead of just talking to them is awful.
The way people are writing off family instead of just talking to them is awful.
What makes you think we haven’t tried talking to them?
What makes you think we haven’t tried talking to them? Often times that detail is left out, and what you see or hear about is how they just don’t talk anymore.
Trust me, most of us have tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried. Some certainly may have preemptively cut people out without discussion, but most of us have beaten our heads against a wall for almost a decade now, trying to convince them that we’re human beings with dignity who deserve respect. We just withdraw from engagement, piece by piece, until there’s nothing lost by just giving up. Cutting them off is usually the last and most consequential move, rather than the first.
I agree. I wish Donald’s cultists would talk and listen to these family members trying to pull them out. It is a shame that Repubs are writing their family off and instead deciding to believe bigoted delusions.
I agree with you, and it’s also a shame that Democrats are writing their family off instead of deprogramming in a non-hateful way. You’d be surprised how Trump supporting relatives can get onboard with socialized medicine, by just talking to them as if they’re not monsters. That’s something a lot of the fucking idiots here on LW could benefit from, instead of yelling “bigot” while acting like a bigot themselves.
Maga are nazis, so you’re phrasing your agreement like a disagreement, but agreement it remains.
The problem is that said political party is in bed with if not just straight up neo Nazis now. Maybe ten years ago your perspective would be reasonable but it simply isn’t anymore.
What’s the remaining distance between a MAGA and a full-on neo-Nazi in your mind? Like as long as they’re voting for the US equivalent of the NSDAP, they’re not officially there yet?
Insane that anyone can be comfortable writing a strawman like “it’s just a different vote,” when they’re voting for “I need generals like Hitler’s, I will be dictator for a day, it is legal to murder political opponents, we will do mass deportations, Haitians are eating cats.”
But if someone just votes for the other main party to the one I do, who cares?
People who will get hurt by that other party gaining the presidency, or people who care about people getting hurt. Or just people with an ounce of empathy.
None of which seem to apply to you.
Let’s say your mom needs chemo treatments and can’t drive herself. You wanna be good to your mom and drive her, but she’s recently developed a behavior from the stress and medication that when she’s in a car with someone, she fights with the driver trying to grab the steering wheel and aim the car at pedestrians.
It’s not her fault that she’s developed this behavior, but you’d think she could at least control herself and stop trying to run over pedestrians, but she says she doesn’t want to. Technically, since you’re driving, you could convince the police that you’re actually the one trying to commit vehicular manslaughter, so while you could deflect the blame, you really know it’s her own fault.
You could also physically restrain your mom, except for all those pesky elder-abuse laws and what kind of person would do that to their mother anyway?
So, what are you gonna do? Will you be a complicit party to your mom’s desire to see pedestrians run over, or will you stop letting her into your car and let her ride the train and bus like an adult? Remember, she’s dying from cancer, but lots of other people experience intrusive thoughts without acting on them and lots of other people don’t have family to support them but still manage just fine.
So, what’s your answer? Support your mom and tell her it’s okay to try killing/hurting people, or let her figure things out for herself and hope that she comes to her senses? She could always prove to you that she realized her behavior was wrong and that she’s ready to ride in the car with you.
And don’t worry, no matter what you answer, I’m still going to call you an asshole, because that’s how reductive internet trolls work. Cuz “fuck you, this is your mom, damn,” and “it’s just simple defensive driving.”
To those giving you shit about cutting horrible people out of your life and saying you need to go visit…
Bullshit. Fuck that noise. I have family that I’ve cut out as well (although, luckily, not my parents). I’m 100% open to them rejoining my life, but their hatred for others is stronger than their love for me, and I won’t allow them back until that changes. Spoiler alert: it probably never will, because there’s no love like Christian “love”.
“Agree to disagree” is reserved for things like “I don’t like coffee.” Not racism, homophobia, and sexism. Not human rights. Not basic common decency. If I unfriend you during this, it IS personal. We do not have a difference of opinion. We have a difference in morality.
- @cdvaughn16, Twitter, 2020-06-05
Damn. I’m sorry :(
Blood is thicker than your dad’s skull. Be bigger than him and hug him before he leaves you forever if it’s possible for you. Fuck the MAGA cultist mentality. Overcome his stubbornness and pride.
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.
This is the correct energy. You already lost him. What’s dying now is some rabies-zombie.
Sorry you had to lose him in such a horrible way. I know exactly what that’s like to go through.
My dad is also MAGA but thankfully not very outspoken about it or I couldn’t stand to be around him. I’m still quite pissed at Trump and his cult following for putting the thought into my head that his death could be a net benefit to society.
As someone who just lost a parent suddenly.
You will almost certainly regret that.
Nope, when my mom dies it will bring a weight off my shoulders, not having to make sure she doesn’t know where I live. The last time she lived by us she wrote manifestos about militant lesbians forcing straight women to become like them and stapled it around work and home.
My father’s death was one of the best things that happened to me.
Sure, because everyone’s experience with their parents is just like yours
No they won’t. I can’t wait for my parents to both fucking die so I can reconnect with my sisters without them being emotionally abused.
Fuck racists, I couldn’t care less how they die. They oppose my family, I spent 2 decades trying to accept my family, they didn’t.
Short answer: I bite back now.
Long answer: My parents are hard-R Republicans. Every time they start getting all “demoncrats r bad” i just ask them, “Why do you want me dead so fucking bad? I know from being raised by you that you fucking hated me growing up, but to vote for “gays should be executed”? This is exactly why you didn’t have grandkids, the thought of putting more of your hate in the world is abhorrent to me…”
I’ve only had to pull that one out twice, so far, but it hits them hard when they still (I’m a few months away from 40) insist I “give them grandkids”.
I’ve known many people to be like this, they just want to slink back, and ignore the blatant. Thank you for having the balls to step up and bite back. People like you are the reason I don’t see almost ANY Trump flags in my neighborhood this year. It’s a cult of personality that nobody else has quite been able to achieve. Once he’s gone for good, things can get back to semi-normal. We still have to be vigilant about the shit Republicans are doing, but at least maybe at that point some family ties will begin to heal.
We… don’t? Have you not been watching American news for the last… 9 years? I don’t speak with my family because me being trans is not fully accepted by them. I don’t really want to associate with anyone who is okay with increasing trans suicides via politics. I moved from North Carolina to Oregon to be in a queer friendly state, and I don’t regret it one bit. And I have an appointment to get my passport tomorrow… just in case. I don’t know if this country can be fixed. People talk about getting along with our neighbors or meeting in the middle, but I don’t know how to get along with people who wish I didn’t exist.
And I have an appointment to get my passport tomorrow… just in case.
I wish I could say come to Germany, but things are looking grim over here too :(
I do not know of any not-grim countries right now
an appointment to get my passport
You can’t immigrate to another country with just passport and a smile. So unless you’ve spent the last year applying for immigration visas, you’re staying for a while.
You actually can visit Canada as a US citizen with just a passport. So in an emergency, I could cross over in a rush. But mostly I am worried that Trump will say you can’t change your gender marker on passports. So I’m preempting that with this passport application.
“Getting along with your neighbors” has moved the right more right… and the left… more right. That center isn’t what it used to be.
Oh, that’s easy; we don’t! Every four years, the fabric of our society frays and tears a little more, while our politicians either exploit our divisions or attempt to repair them without making any changes to the material conditions or systemic problems that create these fractures, because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government! But there’s a new Fast & Furious movie every two or three years, so it balances out.
because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government
And how exactly are they supposed to do that without a super majority that is impossible with the population continuing to elect MAGA Republicans?
There is no bipartisan possibilities. No one from the right will step across the aisle to make constitutional amendments or impeach corrupt SCOTUS justices or fascist party members. And they’d need 1/3rd of them to do so for the authority to fix anything.
There is no moving on. Nothing can be fixed. Voters should have woken up after Jan 6th, but Republicans still gained seats in the mid term elections.
There is no legal path to fixing this, we can only do our best to bail water and keep them from sinking the ship.
History didn’t start in 2016. The Democrats were happy to cozy up to the Silicone Valley tech giants, even as they developed into monopolies whose products gave users the very brain-poisoning that delivered Trump. They were happy to prioritize Wall Street bailouts over homeowners’ bailouts after the subprime mortgage crises, even if meant their constituents lost their homes. They’ve been happy to sideline or undermine anyone who dares run to their left, from Bernie Sanders to Rashida Tlaib.
The Democrats are not well-meaning, helpless progressives that just can’t get anything done because of America’s byzantine political structure. They have actively stopped any significant changes to the status quo in order to keep their donors happy. They’ve spent decades deluding themselves into thinking they could somehow improve conditions for the working class without demanding concessions from the billionaire class, even as the largest wealth transfer in history, from the lowest income Americans to the highest income Americans, was taking place. They may not be as vile or hateful as the Republicans, but they are just as responsible for America’s decay.
There’s miles of difference between the damage that corporate stooges do versus a literal fascist movement. If this were the 2000s, yeah, I’d be with you all the way, both sides pillaging our futures and all that.
But you’re focused on that asshole stealing your catalytic converter down the street, when you’re actively getting mugged and curb stomped, here and now.
There is a very real possibility of this country descending into fascist dictatorship, and/or huge loss of life from an ensuing Civil War.
Right now, the Dems are at least united like they haven’t been in recent memory because they finally understand what’s at stake. It is absolutely infuriating that you guys are still nitpicking over comparatively trivial stuff compared to cataclysm.
This isn’t hyperbole, this is literally what they have been repeatedly caught expressly trying to accomplish. Yes, it seems like it’s crazy to consider that they might actually achieve their goals. But with everything we know, Trump is still very likely to win this election thanks to people like you who can’t seem to prioritize the violent muggers trying to kill you, over the guy stealing your catalytic converter.
What about my original comment led you to believe I thought they were equivalent? As I said, Republicans are vile, hateful, and exploiting our political divisions for power. But the Democrats are just as responsible for the material conditions that have allowed facism to flourish, and demanding accountability and change for that isn’t nitpicking. If the Democrats don’t stop being corporate stooges, this doesn’t end if Trump is defeated; it ends when another fascist finally wins.
Yup, but they’re all we got at the moment.
Yup. We gotta vote for them this election, but replace them in the next. Otherwise, we’re just hitting snooze on fascism for another 4 years.
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I don’t know your situation, but turning from family will only harden their resolve and make them more defensive. I went through this with my mom. She voted for Trump in 2020, after years of me telling her how bad he was. I was angry and didn’t talk to her for 2 months. During this time I heard a podcast with David McRaney, about how to talk to QAnon people. It helped me to understand how they got there, and how to help them out of it. It is a process. They operate on an emotional level, and you have to relate to them on emotional level. After that, you question how they arrived at their decisions. Like:
If I asked what your favorite movie is, could you explain why it’s your favorite movie?
Emotionally connecting with them and then thoughtfully questioning their beliefs, in a non-condescending way can be beneficial. It may take days or months, but once the seed of doubt is planted, it can start a dialogue. Remember, these are people we love ❤️, we owe it to ourselves to be compassionate in conversations.
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It certainly sounds like you made the right choice for you if there is a violent history. Hope for the best for you and your brother.
Always hurts when they believe the TV more than you
They’re ignorant to literally every piece of media, news outlets, cable TV, print, tiktok, fucking Joe fucking Rogan shit, and they genuinely don’t understand why voting for trump is bad.
I think you underestimate both 1) how many news orgs/media spaces/social communities only report on Trump’s successes and democrat scandals and 2) how much of an echo chamber these people live in. Add on a few natural cognitive biases, such as team thinking and discarding evidence contrary to one’s worldview, and you have pretty much the majority of Trump voters at this time.
They are completely immersed in a world where democrats generally are evil and Trump is one of the good guys. Nothing has ever challenged them out of it, because at this point the challenges are just part of the narrative of good vs evil. Whether this changes your conclusions or not, I dunno (dunno whether I think it even should change your conclusion!), but I figure it’s worthwhile giving an accurate depiction of people. Not all malicious and/or super-ignorant, but rather simply cloistered.
you don’t. you believe them when they tell you who they are and remove them from your life.
Very easy to hate. But it’s part of the cycle.
It isn’t hate. It’s leaving the evil, cruel, and/or misinformed alone.
It’s not hate to cut horrible people out of your life. You get to pick who you let into your universe. Be picky.
Or, do what a disturbing number of people have done and make them the centrepiece of your entire life.
Posters all over your house, stickers and flags all over your mobility scooter, hats, T-shirts, the lot.
One of our neighbors had a MAGA collar for their dog…THEIR DOG. Why do they need to drag their DOG into this? He was a good boy. (Was, because the dog passed away from cancer a year or two ago.)
how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
…Why would I want to? Seriously, why would I want to have a relationship with people that have shown me that the things they value are antithetical to the things I value? I don’t give a fuck if people are nice to me; I want people to be kind across the board.
Our inability to compromise is deliberate.
We can’t organize if we can’t compromise.
We are supposed to hate our neighbors. That makes any kind of organizing impossible.
There are some things that you just can’t compromise on.
There hasn’t been any normal for 8 years plus now. Somewhere between 30 and 45% of the population are openly trying for fascism.
Realistically it’s only a matter of when unless we make some pretty damned sweeping changes which they are going to fight tooth and nail.
We need to unrig the judicial system. We need to unrig the voting system. We need to put guardrails up on media disinformation. And we need to start holding some of these fucking politicians accountable for openly lying in campaign. We need to roll back the dictator privileges they managed to shove in at the last moment for the president. We need to hold some of these oligarchs accountable for crimes.
They should lock Musk up for a month. Go ahead and have him shit himself that he’s not above the law.
I don’t know who the next Republican president will be. But you can bet money there’s going to be plenty of bloodshed once they decide to do whatever they want with complete and total immunity.
Way longer than 8 years. Depending on your perspective and level of privilege, it’s been decades, generations, or the entire history.
Things got bad after Obama got elected in 2008 and the racists lost their shit. But they were also bad after Bush started two wars, or when Bush got installed as preznit in the first place in 2000. Or when Gingrich went after Clinton’s penis in 1998. Or when Gingrich took over the Congress in 1994. Or when Clinton first got elected in 1992 and the racists and militias lost their shit and started bombing things. Or the year before that when the other Bush started a war. Or when Reagan broke multiple laws and got away with it, thanks to Ollie North. Or when Reagan got elected in the first place in 1980. Or when Nixon broke enough laws flagrantly enough to get impeached in 1974. Or when he bombed the shit out of SE Asia. Or when Johnson started a war in Vietnam. Or… I mean it just keeps going endlessly. But that’s just my lifetime. If you are Black or Native American the fuckery goes back as far as when white people first stepped foot here.
If you just tweak what you’re looking at a little bit you can easily move that statement back to all of recorded history.
I’m sure the sentence for everything Musk has done has to be far more than a month (the election stuff aside, he has some shady financial stuff surrounding the purchase of Twitter and probably Tesla stock, etc). They need to lock him up as long as they would lock up the rest of us if we did that.
Well, thats the thing. Once the mask is off it can’t be put back on. My relations have cooled with the Trump supporters I know. At least they stopped putting signs out in the neighborhood.
Yeah. I’ve simply stopped associating with Trump supporters. My life doesn’t have room for that kind of hate, so i cut them out.
I have a lot of empathy for people who have beloved relatives like fathers or brothers that are caught in the mind trap. No one really WANTS to cut ties with kin.
My last remaining ties with them are my parents. I know they’re not hateful people - they raised me to be a loving person. Their brainwashing has taken the form of simply not trusting legitimate news sources, which is the hardest kind to overcome.
How do you reason with someone who doesn’t trust any sources of information?
We don’t. We are in a new era where only one of the major parties is committed to democracy. Until that changes, we will remain just one election from an authoritarian theocracy.
Why go back to normal? Conservatives all over the world have revealed themselves to be 5th columns who will take any opportunity at power, even if it means working with foreign powers.
They seem to have a fundamental belief that God is on their side and no matter how bad things get He will protect them because only they are real people.
I cut them out. Don’t remember where I heard the quote but there was one that goes something like “Our values are so different that any relationship we could have that doesn’t fall to violence cannot be a genuine one.” Essentially we care about things that are too different to be able to talk to each other honestly and get along.
Isn’t that like half the country? I sometimes get called “harsh” for wanting to cut the ~10% of AFD-Voters entirely out of my life.
US voter turnout is abysmal, so half of the voters means like 30% of the people.
Call it harsh if you want, but they react to my identity and my beliefs with violence. I’m not going to put myself in that situation and frankly they don’t have anything interesting to say. Why continue a relationship in which I would either have to lie completely about who I am, or tolerate hate speech directed at me or my loved ones? I don’t get anything out of being connected to them, its actively detrimental to my well being. The ones who were family I made it clear that they would not have a relationship with me if they kept at it and they did, so they chose hate over me.
Not even close to half. More like 30%. Probably a little less.
About half of voters.
As for the other people who can vote but don’t, even knowing that one “party” is now a secular cult swearing to build the fourth reich…well, you’d have to ask them. Fuck if any normal people can figure it out.
You uhh, you don’t.
You’re looking at the new normal, at least for a while. Trump’s 2016 election was a paradigm shift in politics around here. Sure, Republicans were generally grifting ultra-capitalist race-baiting snowflake hypocrites before, but trump really lifted the veil and showed them their true selves. No longer do the need to actually govern or occasionally throw some benefits to their base. All they need to do is keep the hate baiting rage machine running, and their supporters will look the other way as long as they can hate anyone else for any reason rather than just deal with the fact that people exist outside their comforting illusion of “normal”.
You think next round is going to be any different? The next round of their presidential primaries are gonna be Desantis, Abbott, and MTG. They are going to keep using those same tactics, because fear and hate are easier for them to live with than hope and acceptance.
That’s where my hope is: they’re no trump. While I have no idea how trump attracts any voters, I can see the reality that these guys attract far less, and owe their prominence partly to trump. I’m much more confident they can’t succeed, and that’s when it all falls apart. After that disastrous run, Republicans have the opportunity to prevail. Will democracy, morals, a guiding philosophy prevail, or just another shit show?
