How do I free my television?
It should be a thing because most (all?) “smart TVs” run some variety of Linux, which, as Free Software, is supposed to guarantee the device owner’s right to modify the software running on the thing. However, in most (all?) cases, the practical ability to do that has been destroyed by subverting encryption functions against the owner in a process called Tivoization.
In other words:
- No, it isn’t really a thing,
- It’s wrong for it not to be a thing, and
- You should be pissed off about it.
Thanks for teaching me a new concept to be angry about, I guess.
I mean, they did it with phones too. Android is just Linux. That was one of the main attractions, for me at least.
At first, many people and groups supplied their own phone OSes. There was a whole thriving community ecosystem. Then they started to make it really hard, locking bootloaders and including critical pieces of hardware that didn’t or couldn’t have open source drivers (look up WinModems for a very early example of this technique, it remains really effective) or otherwise required extremely convoluted methods to access and the phone might function marginally without some of these fully functional, but at least you could still install a custom ROM on it if you were stubborn enough.
But even that wouldn’t last. Nowadays they’ve made it literally impossible to defeat the security on most phones, in the name of keeping hackers and criminals out, but really a big part of their motivation is blocking these pirate OSes that let you actually control the hardware and software in your phone, doing criminally nefarious things like stopping them from downloading ads (the horror!) and preventing them from funneling all your data and activities back to Big Brother (how rude!) and worst of all updating it with modern functionality after they’ve declared it “obsolete”. The goal going forward is to sell you things that you don’t and can’t control, so they can shut them down or make them gradually more and more useless and make you buy new ones forever. They want you to have a subscription for everything including physical objects without realizing that you’ve been forced to subscribe to their regularly-scheduled-disposable-device-replacement-plan for no actual reason.
They’re coming for computers too, or at least they’ll try. They want control of everything we interact with. For profit, mostly, but I wouldn’t rule out other motives. It’s a powerful thing when you have control of everything people see and do.
Woah woah woah, slow down partner, you’re not done yet.
- you should absolutely make as much headway on this project as you can, then share the results so we can all benefit.
It’s interesting to see some of the back-and-forth on this topic between different proponents of free software.
I listened to this talk by Linus Torvalds a while back and it relates to the GPL license used by the Linux kernel and why the kernel hasn’t changed to GPLv3. Apparently Linus doesn’t find this practice by Tivo and other hardware manufacturers to be an issue.
Yes, it’s a damn shame that Linus is weak on property rights.
Because that’s what this actually is, by the way: violating the device owner’s property rights in order to prioritize the manufacturer’s temporary monopoly privilege over the software – which was only created for the sole and express purpose “to promote the progress of science and the useful arts” in the first place – above them.
Linus is kinda infamous for being a dick.
That really doesn’t contribute anything to the merits of his remarks or not though.
I think he needs to work with HW manufacturers and chip designers/manufacturers to get drivers. They’re always going to have some proprietary HW and FW and communication protocols somewhere in their stuff. I think if he pisses them off too much he has to to bit-bash or reverse engineer all drivers for loads of stuff - which is never going to happen.
The Free Software Foundation explicitly forbade tivoization in version 3 of the GNU General Public License. However, although version 3 has been adopted by many software projects, the authors of the Linux kernel have notably declined to move from version 2 to version 3.
How come Linux doesn’t use GPL v3?
Linux copyrights are owned by many different people, so it would be prohibitively difficult to ask every person to agree to a GPLv3 change. Even if you could, Linus Torvalds is not a fan of the v3 license.
Even if you could, Linus Torvalds is not a fan of the v3 license.
Why not?
Count me in for #3.
It’s similar to console hacking. If there is no known exploit, the device is not yours. LG patched the exploit that made that possible for my smart TV and know I need to wait for another to be doscovered. Unfortunately the Smart TV hacking community is not that active.
https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io
https://xdaforums.com/t/getmein-one-time-rooting-jailbreaking-tool-for-webos-lg-tvs.3887904/
Unfortunately the Smart TV hacking community is not that active.
It is a bit more active than your links seem to indicate, but is not very well organized or easy to find.
Use https://cani.rootmy.tv/ to check recent status of rooting LG TVs models. Many slightly older, 2+ years old TVs are still rootable, due to this exploit from 2024: https://github.com/throwaway96/dejavuln-autoroot
It is still possible to buy “dumb” TV’s. Tons of businesses need them for display purposes (like at fast food restaurants and corporate expos, etc, etc), but you need to search for commercial displays. Like this one.
Bless you for providing a link; I can’t tell you howany times I’ve seen this advice without any link or instructions on how to locate these
No problem! I work in television/live streaming production. Finding and buying “dumb” monitors when we build out new sets and presentation spaces is literally part of my job.
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Usually that means trying to get Android TV working through USB, but it depends on what tv you have. If you already have an Android TV, just use a launcher like Projectivy. Most people just buy a media box: either an Android based one or apple tv and disable the “smart” tv altogether
It’s much easier to run a HTPC on something small like a Raspberry Pi, or an NVIDIA Shield. The hardware on your TV is probably the bare minimum to run its own smart features, and replacing the firmware doesn’t guarantee that the TV isn’t still phoning home with your data.
If you literally replaced the firmware, what else could possibly be phoning home?
The lower level firmware, your pc is probably doing the same
Nvidia shields with an alternate home screen have been a good solution for me? TV isn’t connected to the network directly, just to the shield.
I’ve got RetroArch, Plex, Spotify on each of them - that sort of stuff.
bingo. never put the tv on the network, just budget for adding something else. tvs have been known to update after a year and start injecting ads outside return policy LOL. fucking scam’s man. my shield fucks up, it gets flashed. or traded out.
Do people actually use their TV without a console or computer of some sorts connected? That’s absolutely feral behavior. Like boomers avoiding self checkout cause it’s too complicated.
(as a millennial, I avoid self checkout because massive corporations are eliminating jobs without reducing prices and I think that’s bullshit)
You are missing out on some greeeaat discount opportunities.
Your smart TV is a computer of some sorts. You can do shit like watching Netflix with it. If that is all you want to do, why should you use another device with it, that brings no benefits but uses more power?
i already said why. there are stories where an update now injects ads into the tv, more than were there when you bought it. so after you can’t return it, well, now it’s “updated” and can’t take the piece of shit back.
using a 3rd party device still leaves you in some sort of control. i use an nvidia shield, which definitely does add better functionality, but if it starts acting stupid, i flash it back to defaults/roll back any updates or i replace it, tv unchanged.
and power usage is negligible at best.
here is one story - https://choice.community/t/samsung-now-injecting-ads-into-your-smart-tv/26124
spying - https://money.cnn.com/2015/02/09/technology/security/samsung-smart-tv-privacy/index.html
phone updates can do the same - https://old.reddit.com/r/ShittyDesign/comments/1fqy9rh/samsung_wants_to_turn_my_charging_screen_into_ads/
bottom line, if you don’t control the device, you have no say in what gets update/installed/“upgraded” to support more ads. on an external device, i know how to wipe it/block updates. on the tv, best i could do is factory reset it, im IT, not TV.
I mean, that sucks but I run pihole on my network and don’t have any injected ads on my Samsung displays, and all base functionality I need works without issue.
I have pihole setup too. I’d still never need to connect my tv. but you’re free to do as you want
Because Xbox and PlayStation exist? Also, the ergonomics of the TV remote vs a controller are night and day different.
Yes, the differences are night and day. Every time I want to watch one of the few movies I own on Blu-ray, I turn my old PS4 on and remember how shitty a controller is for media playback and I download the movie and watch it on my Raspberry Pi with Kodi and a proper media remote.
So again: if I just want to watch Netflix, why should I add a console that has no advantages, but uses more power and forces me to use a controller that is nice for many games but shit for watching movies?
if it’s such a problem, then don’t use anything, let your tv be open to the Internet and browser hacks. that’s your prerogative. but we’re telling why it’s a bad idea, that’s all.
Yes, the differences are night and day. Every time I want to watch one of the few movies I own on Blu-ray, I turn my old PS4 on and remember how shitty a controller is for media playback and I download the movie and watch it on my Raspberry Pi with Kodi and a proper media remote.
- lol no you don’t.
So again: if I just want to watch Netflix, why should I add a console that has no advantages, but uses more power and forces me to use a controller that is nice for many games but shit for watching movies?
-You aren’t raw dogging your TV apps…youre using a console of sorts to run your media vs letting the TV do it. Which was what I was asking in the root comment in this thread.
So what I originally said…and what I’m replying to now are the same sentiment. You’re being a contrarian.
My parents haven’t even fixed whatever is causing the weird audio delay they have on there’s. Every time I go over there it’s like they’re watching dubbed CNN.
If that even happens to the subtitles while I’m streaming I have to shut everything down and fix it. It’s so distracting.
I *gasp!* run Kodi directly on my smart TV!! ohmygosh
Also cars. I want a custom, privacy respecting OS for an EV please
Oh no:
It is theoretically possible to replace the operating system of an electric car with an open-source or custom alternative, similar to flashing a custom ROM on Android smartphones. However, in practice, this comes with significant challenges. Here’s an overview:
Theoretical Feasibility
-
Hardware Compatibility:
- Electric vehicles rely on specific hardware components (e.g., control units, sensors, actuators) that are tightly integrated with the operating system.
- A custom operating system would need to understand and control this hardware. However, the underlying hardware specifications (APIs, protocols) are often proprietary and not publicly available.
-
Software Architecture:
- Modern electric cars use highly complex software architectures that include real-time operating systems, safety-critical systems, and user-facing interfaces.
- A replacement OS would need to handle safety-critical functions (like braking and steering) as well as infotainment features.
-
Open-Source Efforts:
- There are initiatives like Automotive Grade Linux (AGL), which aim to create open-source software for vehicles. However, these are typically designed for automakers and not readily available for end-user modification.
Practical Challenges
-
Safety Risks:
- Operating safety-critical functions such as braking, propulsion, and battery management requires certified software.
- Modifying the software introduces safety risks, which can have serious consequences, especially on public roads.
-
Legal Barriers:
- Many countries mandate that vehicles operate only with approved software to ensure compliance with safety and emissions regulations.
- Modifying the vehicle’s software could result in the loss of roadworthiness certification.
-
Technical Restrictions:
- Manufacturers often use encryption and digital signatures to protect access to the vehicle’s software.
- Replacing the operating system would require bypassing these security measures, which could be legally and technically problematic.
-
Lack of Community Support:
- Unlike smartphones or PCs, there is currently no large-scale community actively developing user-friendly open-source operating systems for electric vehicles.
Examples from Practice
- Some enthusiasts and hackers have managed to modify software on vehicles like Tesla cars to add custom features or access internal data. However, these projects remain experimental and risky.
- Initiatives like Comma.ai focus on creating aftermarket autonomy systems, demonstrating the challenges of modifying or replacing existing systems.
Conclusion
Replacing the operating system of an electric car is theoretically possible but practically extremely difficult due to legal, technical, and safety-critical constraints. While it could be an exciting project for hobbyists and developers, any modifications would likely render the vehicle unfit for legal road use in most jurisdictions.
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Best is to try to get the dumbest TV you can and plug in an android tv streaming box to it imo
Like a TV that flunked kindergarten? j/k
I bet somebody’s done it. There are people in the Linux world who dedicate themselves to getting it to run on anything - a TV, a toaster…
But it would probably be a lot easier to just run Linux on a Raspberry Pi or something and use the TV as a monitor.
I have another question.
Can we reprogramme the remote buttons that open Netflix, YouTube etc., so that they open other apps like Jellyfin or something?
you can! (at least on googles android tv, not sure about amazon’s bastardized version) I use an app called button remaster, available from the play store, to switch my chromecasts youtube button to smart tube and netflix button to stremio
I don’t know how remotes work, physically, but they gotta send some sort of code to the TV. If your TV’s OS can intercept that message it can choose its own response mapped to whatever you want to happen. Something akin to remapping keys in your keyboard.
I would assume, anyway. I could be wrong.
Yes. What brand or model number do you have?
I was thinking that if somebody knows how to do that, they probably also have an opinion on which brands of TV are better or worse for it.
I don’t own a TV right now but plan to in the future.
Ah, well, the biggest thing you have to worry about is that most vulnerabilities that would allow users to get ROOT access have been patched for old and new TVs, so you might want to be selective if you don’t want to do it the hard way. You need to know which TV OS you’re dealing with before you can look for the necesary tools.
The hard way is removing the SoC processor from the board, buying a custom mount for it, and using the debug pins to flash the OS. Most of the legwork has been done already for this method. https://www.synacktiv.com/en/publications/i-hack-u-boot
Something to keep in mind is that the processors in smart TVs are almost always pathetically slow. Also, the streaming services compatible with these TVs require hardware encryption so if your modified OS mimics the old one but isn’t verified then they will refuse to run. You would get better performance from using a computer connected to the HDMI port, or even a Raspberry Pi as your TV Box.
Replacing the OS completely is likely possible for every single TV on the market, but not very likely for any of them because nobody with the skills sees any value in it.
I’d think most people woud go for a cheap used ultra Small Form Factor pc or raspberry pi set up as an htpc. Plug in to either tv screen (via hdmi ) or monitor / projector directly. Never connect the tv to the internet - or even to your LAN if you’re really paranoid. You can arse around with a remote control a bit bodgy, or just use wireless Keyboard/mouse.
I cant imagine spending the time to jailbreak a tv to get less functionality for more hassle - but i’m sure some crazy will have done it - good luck finding them though.
Some TVs will connect to the internet anyway
How do they if you dont plug them in to the network, do they have cellular, or some sort of PLC? Can they hack WPA? maybe they’re more powerful than i’d creditt them for.
Cellular and your neighbors WiFi that was online without a password for about 3 minutes. It only takes a few seconds for them to dump all their stored history up to the mothership.
Its also common for a lot od ISPs to have a hidden SSID for their other customers, which you cannot disable. I wouldn’t be surprised if your neighbors TV will mesh share their WiFi to your TV so it can upload the data about you. That data is why they sold you that TV at a discount. They want it.
It is possible but it needs people to develop the OS for each brand of TV and jailbreak the TVs to run another OS.
Most TVs are like phones in that they have a locked down system and their bootloader/BIOS/UEFI is also locked down which is what ultimately needs to be unlocked to allow another OS to be installed.
Why there isn’t?
Just not really many developers interested in creating an OS for it. Probably because of so many different brands and models of TVs that would require lots of work since each one is pretty different from another.
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Seriously, buy an AppleTV. It works standalone without the need for other apple products. Has a fast processor, ability to disable telemetry, good track record of software update support etc. and NO.ADS.IN.THE.OPERATING.SYSTEM.
Using an Android box will result in the same issues you’re trying to get away from with SmartTVs.
If you’re technically capable enough you can build your own HTPC, but due to DRM you’re going to run into issues streaming 4K content from streaming services. And PC and Linux HDR and Dolby Vision support is a rabbit hole.
Except you have needed to have an iPhone to use an Apple TV, and to get around it required a workaround that wasn’t disclosed. It’s happened before, it can happen again.
Apple also telemetries the hell out of your data. The best they offer against this is to prevent them from using it for “targeted” marketing, but that doesn’t really mean much as Apple clearly states:
We provide some non-personal data to our advertisers and strategic partners that work with Apple to provide our products and services, help Apple market to customers, and sell ads on Apple’s behalf to display on the App Store and Apple News and Stocks.
Seriously, this myth of “Apple = Privacy/no ads” needs to go away.
That’s the privacy policy for the AppleTV app. Here’s the specific information on AppleTV device settings:
https://support.apple.com/en-tm/guide/tv/atvb66239fa1/tvos
You can share analytics data with Apple or app developers in order to improve their software. Sharing this data is completely optional
The Apple TV runs the Apple TV app.
It’s not a hardware issue that tracks you, it’s every app baked into it which has its own privacy policies.
