A lot of conservatives want to simplify life because they have a simple mind.
I think most commenters here are missing the point.
There is a more extreme reaction to transgender people as opposed to gay or lesbian people, because of issues like sports and bathrooms. And that hits at people’s sense of injustice. For example if you have a young daughter, a lot of people will hate the idea of a person with a penis going into the women’s room and being around there little girl. Or if that daughter grows up and joins a sports team, the idea of somebody who is hormonally male and thus naturally more muscular competing against your daughter is unpleasant.
Put differently, I think a lot of people we now classify as ‘transphobic’ don’t actually have much problem with trans people themselves. Rather, with how the efforts to ensure trans people receive the full treatment of their chosen gender can affect the rest of society.
For me personally, I don’t know what the answer is. I generally don’t care which bathroom you use as long as you wash your hands. I have no problem with anyone presenting themselves to the world as whatever they wish, if it makes you happier than by all means. At the same time though, I don’t think it’s transphobic to point out that somebody who is largely or entirely biologically male will have a natural competitive advantage in the field of sports.
So while I certainly don’t want to exclude anybody, I think there is at least a little justification for restricting some women’s sports to those who are genetically female.I think the part people don’t realize is that like a lot of top athletes just have oddities - higher muscle building hormones, circulatory systems that work better under stress, more cellular receptors for triggering muscle building etc. And at the same time sex hormones aren’t the only chemicals that affect these things so there’s also a plethora of performance enhancing drugs cascading out of labs at the same time which is genuinely pumping out hulked up muscle freaks (see Liver King’s 12k steroid shots per month scandal)
At some point it would just make more sense to just classify sports by weight and build and remove the genital inspection element.
Yes, they do this already within gendered sports (different weights to compete) so just remove the gender side of it.
I don’t think anyone really cares about sports or bathrooms when it comes down to it It’s all about the patriarchy. Not a single person I’ve met has mentioned a woman who became a man going into a men’s restroom as a problem. Or them entering mens sports outside of the dimly vieled “oh well they could get hurt and a man needs to protect them from making their own decisions”
It all comes back to people thinking men have to take care of women because they can’t take care of themselves without assistance.
It is a reflection of how weak the people who think such are. And projecting and trying to control others lives because they don’t believe they can take care of themselves.
If you believe in people having freedom, stop trying to fucking chain them to your ideals. (Not aimed at you specifically)
There is no patriarchy involved though? Even women actively campaign against trans male participation in women sports.
Just take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/i39VHDmawtw
There are no men involved. Just women, so your argument doesn’t track
Yes, women can be victims of patriarchy brainwashing.
There are working people who voted for the capitalist party.
Same shit.
A YouTube video of Donald Trump talking on Fox News is your evidence that no men are invoved in having something against trans people. That tracks
🤨. Are you being intentionally obtuse or what?
Not at all. Thats the subject of the thread. Why are people, mainly conservatives, against trans people. And you posted a link to a White Male Conservative on a Conservative platform speaking against some stupid shit that doesn’t matter, and saying men aren’t involved.
The NCAA is a business. If you believe in a free market, then don’t make laws to dictate their rules. If people actually care they’ll stop buying that product and someone will start a new league with different rules and people can participate there.
If anything, do the country a favor and ban official sports teams from the education system. And people can join leagues outside of the college and it will help get education better suited. Scholarships should be for educating future minds to create a better future, not wasted on someone who isnt there for an education. The amount of corruption in schools do to sports in way to high.
Bro hates Trump so much that he didn’t watch past the first 5 seconds💀.
I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed. You made the argument that the reason people are against trans people is majorly due to the patriarchy, and i linked to an example of a female volleyball team refusing to play a trans team as a direct rebuttal to that point. A rebuttal you would’ve understood if you had gotten over your Trump hate and low attention span to watch the entire video.
“I’m not even going to bother reading what else you typed”
Proceeds to say I have a short attention span. Yeah there is no way I’m sitting through anything that Fox News broadcasts.
I think that one thing you and other centrists are missing is that any kind of regulation isn’t just a regulation on trans women, it’s a regulation on ALL women. It won’t be just trans women that will be put in a position of constantly having their genitals checked.
Be it for bathrooms, sports, whatever, you’re opening us up to a world where anyone that fancies themselves an authority will feel empowered to sexually assault any women they want. That’s what’s at stake here. This is a women’s issue, not just a trans issue. Hell, even men will end up getting harassed in bathrooms.
Meanwhile, actual trans people are going to by and large steer clear of segregated contact sports like they’ve always done, feeling the pain of exclusion and marginalization while deserving none of it.
LoL at thinking Republicans don’t want people with Penises in their Daughter’s Restroom! Conservatives are LITERALLY making it ILLEGAL for people with Penises and Beards to use anything BUT their Daughter’s Restroom!
Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.
In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.
Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.
Yes! Screw the patriarchy
If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they’re the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.
If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.
(You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)
Meh, I don’t know if it’s strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it’s probably more “just” a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don’t like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I’m just speculating, here.
I can also see the sexual panic aspect.
That’s cuz it isn’t hierarchy, it’s tradition. People have a hard time warming up to things that are very different from the norm.
They’re an easy minority to scapegoat. In the US they make up between 0.5% and 1.6% of the population. A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia). They’re just people trying to find their place in the world and live their lives, same as most of us.
A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia).
I find that disgusting and totally incorrect, but actually I would be fine if that’s what they thought and that’s where they stopped.
But they want to pass laws telling other people how they have to behave, and how they have to do things.
The most unamerican and unpatriotic, anti-freedom thing that I can possibly think of, is people passing laws to define something as intimate and personal as gender identity and family planning. Like can’t they just fuck off and let people be how they want?
It’s extremely weird. And these fucking bigots think because they won the election they’re not weird anymore, but most of the country did not vote. These people are still weird as fuck. If everyone voted they would get crushed and laughed out of town.
Conservatives are afraid of change, because they control current status quo. They can’t let people escape from that control, so every nail that is a little outside it’s hole gets hammered.
In short, they rather prefer trans (and broadly queers) to hide or die, unless they can control them. Everyone different from what they can control is a big danger. Imagine if everyone could be like they feel like? Conservatives see this as chaos, they are the guardians of peace and good values, so anything not already controlled by them is the opposite, chaos, destruction, fire.
That’s why they rarely present anything new, their policies and general opinion tend to fight the natural evolution of civilization. USA, as obviously all of the American Continent, was built by immigrants (and slaves). Now they fight immigrants, undocumented ones mostly, because they can’t control them. And we know what happened when ‘the libs’ back then tried to end slavery, you know, other people that they CONTROLLED.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Materialist answer (inspired by a video called Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology, by breadtuber Halim Alrah… and also Jane Elliott’s famous experiment)
Business owner makes money by paying workers to produce widgets at $6 / unit. Owner sells these widgets at $10 / unit, making a $4 profit each sale.
Before long, the workers catch on to the reality of the situation: the owner could be making a lot less and still be able to provide “leadership” (or whatever it is he provides). They decide not to work for less than… $8 per unit. With this price, the owner will still be wealthy (the business makes hundreds of widgets, after all). But now, so will the workers.
So the workers save up money and use it to go on strike.
However: business owner comes up with a better solution to the problem: he divides the workers into brown-eyed workers and blue-eyed workers. He then uses his money to discriminate against the brown-eyed workers. His cronies in government make it legal to deny brown-eyed workers jobs and housing. His cronies in the media write hysterical anecdotal stories about various brown-eyed rapists, thieves, and murderers.
Terrified mobs – stoked into a frenzy by the business owner’s well-funded propaganda – tear down brown-eyed people’s homes and food supplies, leaving them destitute before the strike is done.
The brown-eyed workers now must choose between returning to work for the business owner at $5 / unit… or starving to death.
The blue-eyed workers, meanwhile, have just been tricked into betraying their own team. Some were not tricked, but simply unprepared. These unprepared workers stood by in either shock, uncertainty, or laziness, unable to comprehend how their fellow blue-eyed workers could have become so foolishly self-defeating and cruel.
But now the business owner can put up the illusion of no longer needing the blue-eyed workers. He can run his factory on a skeleton crew of desperate, brown-eyed workers, and say to the blue, “uh oh! Looks like the brown-eyed workers just stole your jobs!”
Much like the brown-eyed workers, the blue-eyed workers have a restricted set of choices: A) admit they were suckers --fooled into attacking their own team – and try to apologize and rebuild their union, B) double down and blame brown-eyed people for undercutting them… but reluctantly return to work, because the strike is broken, or C) just like the brown-eyed workers, they can choose to starve to death.
(A) will be the most difficult. As Mark Twain said: “it’s easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled.”
The business owner wins, and now society has an eye-color-discrimination problem. Eye color was an arbitrary characteristic. Yet now it decides where someone lives, who they spend time with, and what kinds of opportunities they have access to.
The business owner can rinse and repeat for: skin tone, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. As the saying goes,
“Divide and conquer.”
You asked why trans people are currently the subject of fear and hysteria? No reason. Not any new reason at least. Trans people are different. Any and every difference between workers is an opportunity for those fatcats rich enough to own “The Daily Mail” and the “The New York Post” to separate us into camps and drain us dry, one camp at a time.
Really well articulated.
Thanks!
Incredible answer! I saved this with my running list of great quotes and passages.
Thank you!
Because conservatives are mostly dumb, and dumb people don’t understand things and won’t make an effort to understand things, and people fear what they don’t understand. Very simple A-to-C.
I don’t encounter a lot of ads but I was just listening to the Economist talk about this one which the trump campaign played over and over again and it struck me as a small window of an answer to your question.
The ad strikes me as cruel but the thrust (and I imagine there’s a blend of fact and fiction) is that Harris used tax money to pay for a woman’s sex change after being convicted of first degree murder and serving life in prison. They also have Harris saying she was using her power to “push forward the movement and the agenda.”
Even for supporters of trans rights, I imagine not everyone loves having to defend using tax money to pay for expensive gender surgery, especially on criminals.
So I could see people, who might otherwise be supportive of trans folks in their own lives, being “against trans people” on an issue framed like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3BXYjoAzq0&ab_channel=TheJimHeathChannel
We have a lot of LGBTI people in our climbing group
I have never had an issue with any of them
But the people trying to be hyper masculine? Yep…
I feel like it’s because they never left high school. A lot of them are simply trying the same thing that worked when they are a kid. Everyone else grows up
Their systems of power rely on having an “in” group and an “out” group. Overt racism is less acceptable these days because now there are brown Republicans, but transphobia? Very in.
They’re just choosing a new group to “other” so that we don’t realize they’re coming for everyone who doesn’t fit into their narrow worldview.
Conservatives come in two types. The rich ones who want more and more money. And the poor ones who also want more money but are unable to obtain it because the rich hoard money.
The rich conservatives need to stop the poor conservatives from realizing the rich are why the poor can’t get money. So they make up vulnerable groups to blame for the poor’s problem, and the poor are generally too poorly educated to catch on to this game.
Different groups have been the scapegoat. Women, blacks, the italians, the irish, asians, gays, and now it’s transgender people.
The good news is transgender people WILL get full rights in about 20-30 years if you look at historical cycles. The bad news is it will be a fight and many will die before they get treated as human beings by these asshole conservatives.
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People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.
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It doesn’t conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.
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Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.
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Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.
Projection is also a common way for people to deflect blame for societal ills. Religious zealots will ignore and even shield sexual abusers present in their own institutions and divert that animosity to outside groups that make convenient targets. They are ok with the abusers within their walls because they are seeking absolution through religious systems. They are not ok with queer people because they need to scapegoat a group to explain why things don’t seem to be getting better.
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Rural IL here. Full of conservatives.
Nobody here cares if you are trans. Couldn’t care less.
Never met a school church shooter either.
They are just propagandized. In general, it’s so much like racists - they may know trans people and just think they are the exceptions, like them as individuals and still think they hate them as a group. They are intentionally riled up by being forced fed edge cases and disinformation.
Trans people are just people. They aren’t angels who are never criminals and they aren’t degenerates who are always criminal, they are a diverse group like all of us are. But you can bet your ass that whenever a trans person does something criminal it will be blown up so big in conservative media and used to paint them all as criminals. It’s just the right wing media machine.
Most conservatives I know think it’s dangerous to entertain trans ideas in children. They say kids don’t know what gender really means because they haven’t experienced puberty yet but the most effective time to use hormone blockers is before puberty. So they feel like it’s the parents who are encouraging use of hormone therapy for their kids because the parents are brainwashed by left media, and essentially committing child abuse.