• PizzaMan@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    MEDIA ALERT: Time to roll out the fake studies on low immigrant crime!

    The one-man factory producing these studies is Alex Nowrasteh of the libertarian Cato Institute. (Take our country, just don’t raise taxes.) He fudges the data, slaps a false title on his report, and journalists copy his work like they’re Claudine Gay writing a thesis.

    It is absolutely hilarious that the Cato institute is getting called out for ‘shitting out bad studies’ by fellow conservatives.

    Setting aside that, this article portrays all of the studies are coming from one person. But that’s not the case.

    Literally just pulling off the top results from google scholar:

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

    https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=JaGRGfauOG8C&oi=fnd&pg=PA385&dq=immigrant+crime+rates+vs+citizen+crime+rates&ots=SWy7CXct8S&sig=VB7zBvzFoHYVMjz9Dpg4J-Tbxlo#v=onepage&q=immigrant crime rates vs citizen crime rates&f=false

    https://www.ojp.gov/criminal_justice2000/vol_1/02j.pdf

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/(SICI)1520-6688(199822)17:3<457::AID-PAM4>3.0.CO;2-F

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0022427818799125

    These are authored by different people, and they all come to more or less the same conclusion, that immigrants have lower crime rates than the existing population.

    I take issue with your article’s interpretation of the studies by Nowrasteh, but in the end I don’t care enough to go over that when there are plenty of other studies confirming the same result.

    • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      Do the “plenty of other studies” have the same flaw? Are they looking at illegal immigrant crime or just immigrant crime?

      The PNAS study you cited has the same flaw, it’s using Texas data for illegal immigrant status.

      The Oxford Handbook of Crime and Criminal Justice was a study about immigration and crime not illegal immigration

      The criminal justice essay was about immigrant crime not illegal immigrant crime.

      The Cross-city evidence on the relationship between immigration and crime was not a study about illegal immigration and it used data from the 1980s.

      Institutional Completeness and Crime Rates in Immigrant Neighborhoods was a study on immigration not illegal immigration.

      • PizzaMan@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        8 months ago

        The PNAS study you cited has the same flaw, it’s using Texas data for illegal immigrant status.

        How is that a flaw? Texas is very much involved in this issue.

        … study about immigration and crime not illegal immigration

        Prove to me that there any significant difference in crime rates between documented immigrants and undocumented immigrants (beyond the occasional misdemeanor of illegal entry that half the time isn’t even always a part of this).

        • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          How is that a flaw? Texas is very much involved in this issue.

          Texas’ crime data only counts illegal aliens who have already been caught and fingerprinted by the Department of Homeland Security.

          Prove to me that there any significant difference in crime rates between documented immigrants an

          You couldn’t provide sources to back up your claim now you make new claims and instead of backing them up you ask that I do. The socio-economic difference in those two groups alone is going to show a difference. illegals commit murders at a 30% higher rate then the rest of the population. 4 of your 5 studies showed legal immigrants had lower crime rates than the rest of the population.

          https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal-Immigrant-Criminality

          • PizzaMan@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Texas’ crime data only counts illegal aliens who have already been caught and fingerprinted by the Department of Homeland Security.

            So what?

            You couldn’t provide sources to back up your claim now you make new claims and instead of backing them up you ask that I do.

            No, you made an implicit claim that there is a difference in crime rates between immigrants and undocumented immigrants. Support it.

            illegals commit murders at a 30% higher rate then the rest of the population. 4 of your 5 studies showed legal immigrants had lower crime rates than the rest of the population.

            https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal-Immigrant-Criminality

            Crazy, it’s almost like adding prisoners to the count increases the rates. Go with something peer reviewed next time.

            • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              No, you made an implicit claim that there is a difference in crime rates between immigrants and undocumented immigrants. Support it.

              You tried to pass of studies on immigrant crime rates as illegal immigrant crime studies and got caught.

              Crazy, it’s almost like adding prisoners to the count increases the rates. Go with something peer reviewed next time.

              Adding prisoners to the rate that were not added initially. They’re correcting the rate.

              See the problem with the only source you could find on illegal immigration crime is that Texas does not count illegals in their rate unless they’ve all ready been identified as illegals. Your study is comparing identified illegals to unidentified illegals and legals.

              • PizzaMan@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                You tried to pass of studies on immigrant crime rates as illegal immigrant crime studies and got caught.

                Are you going to catch me breathing next? Like I already said, this point is irrelevant, as you have yet to prove a difference in rates between immigrants and undocumented immigrants.

                Adding prisoners to the rate that were not added initially. They’re correcting the rate.

                No, they’re adding prisoners to the rate only for one group. They’re fucking up the numbers.

                • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  You tried to pass off studies of legal immigrats as illegal immigrants, got caught and now demand that I prove that they are different because you know you can’t find any studies to support that claim.

                  No, they’re adding prisoners to the rate only for one group. They’re fucking up the numbers.

                  They are moving misidentified prisoners from one group to another. Illegals in prison for a crime in 2012 that were not identified as illegals but were later identified move from the legal group to the illegal group. Are you claiming legals were misidentified as illegals?

            • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              In the article 11 studies are listed under the Controversial reports section the one I provided is not one of them.

              • Celestial6370@programming.dev
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                In this visual aid you are Charlie Brown and the CIS is Lucy you trusted their methods and acumen after they yanked the football 11 times.

                • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  It’s right to be suspicious but with out any proof that this study if flawed you falling into an ad hominem logical fallacy.

  • PizzaMan@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    How much longer are these shitty sources gonna be allowed around here?

    “Airports scrupulously apply the same laughably ineffective airport harassment to Suzy Chapstick as to Muslim hijackers. It is preposterous to assume every passenger is a potential crazed homicidal maniac. We know who the homicidal maniacs are. They are the ones cheering and dancing right now. We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren’t punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That’s war. And this is war.”

          • PizzaMan@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            This comment chain wasn’t intended to discuss the article. It is to discuss the pervasive shittyness of the sources around here. My other comment in this thread was for the article itself.

            • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              Can the same logic be applied to you. You’ve said shitty things so should everything you say be dismissed?

              • PizzaMan@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                Please show me where I said we should be racially profiling people at airports, invading foreign countries, forcibly converting people to christianity, and killing civilians.

                • jimbolauski@lemm.eeOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  What does making a specific statement have to do with whether you’ve said shitty things?