I tend to browse /All and by New on Lemmy. I went to respond on a thread on !vegan@lemmy.world to thank someone for a recipe that looked good, and found out I had been banned.

Odd, considering I hadn’t posted to that sub at any point in the past. I checked the modlog to find that “Mod” had banned a bunch of people citing “Rule 5.”

Their Rule 5 states: Bad-faith carnist rhetoric & anti-veganism are not allowed, as this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism. Anyone is welcome here, however, and so good-faith efforts to ask questions about veganism may be given their own weekly stickied post in the future (see current stickied discussion).

I (and hundreds of others) seemingly broke rule 5 of this community without ever posting there. What is going on?

And my apologies if this isn’t the place for this, but I had no idea where else to post the question.

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
    1·
    2 months ago

    When you’re not a vegan and argue against veganism online and the vegans don’t want to let you into a vegan space

    • Ace T'Ken@lemmy.caOPEnglish
      0·
      2 months ago

      The last time I spoke about veganism whatsoever was over 7 months ago.

      Not to mention that it was specifically in a debate thread dedicated to discussing veganism, nor was I overly negative.

      Was this intended to be a strawman of some kind?

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
        1·
        2 months ago

        So, to be clear, you’re saying that you are not a vegan and you did argue against veganism, and are upset that you got kicked from a vegan space, but at the same time, saying that you’re not a vegan and argued against veganism and are upset that you got kicked from a vegan space is a “strawman,” somehow.

        Are you strawmanning yourself? Wtf are you talking about?

        • Ace T'Ken@lemmy.caOPEnglish
          0·
          2 months ago

          For full clarity of what occurred (and not that my diet is any of your concern, but since you brought it up):

          1. I am not vegan, but have been greatly reducing my meat intake and have been toying with going vegetarian.
          2. I was kicked from a vegan Community I have never posted in and was about to do for the first time to thank someone for something I found interesting.
          3. I do not know why I was kicked from a vegan Community. The reason was cited as a rule that I did not violate. I found hundreds of other bans while looking for why I was banned.
          4. I did not argue against veganism. 7 months ago, I did argue in favour of plants as plants are awesome. This should be irrelevant to what occurred with these bans.
          5. I did all discussion in a single thread specifically created to discuss veganism in a discussion Community on a completely different instance.
          6. The Strawman comment is you claiming I’m somehow screaming “1984” because of the ban. I am not.
          7. You are being needlessly combative and creating arguments based on assumption. That is the definition of a strawman.
          8. My original post here was made out of confusion, not malice.

          Is that enough for you to parse what has occurred, or would you care to restate everything poorly and in bad faith once again?

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
            0·
            2 months ago

            I did not argue against veganism. 7 months ago, I did argue in favour of plants as plants are awesome.

            The lie detector search function determined that was a lie.

            If you want to be vegan because you don’t like factory farms? That’s not a logical jump to make. There are plenty of smaller suppliers you can procure from that do not have those issues; the smarter jump is to just not use bad providers no matter what the product.

            If you want to be vegan because it’s eliminating suffering? Nope. You’re just making substitutions for things you’re comfortable with. Bad logic. Bad argument. You’re also applying your own morals (because this is a moral standpoint) to other people, which is stupid no matter who is doing it. From anti-abortion activists to Muslim extremists, your morals apply to you and only you. Do not try to enforce them on the outside world.

            If you want to be vegan because it eliminates death? That’s also a moral argument. In fact, in the short term and per unit of death, being vegan adds MORE deaths, they’re just not a style you choose to recognize. Not to mention that increasing the crop yields to make up for the caloric deficit created by meat vanishing would also potentially kill the planet at this stage of human occupation. Crops that are easy to grow, less destructive to the land so they can grow it again immediately after, low maintenance, and cast-offs from other production are where animal feed comes from. This stuff could not be fed to humans or are excess.

            Those certainly look like arguments against veganism to me! What would you call them?

            The Strawman comment is you claiming I’m somehow screaming “1984” because of the ban. I am not.

            That’s not a “strawman,” it’s a parody.

            My original post here was made out of confusion, not malice.

            The lie detector My ability to read the rest of this thread determined that was a lie.

            Perhaps you guys could/should elevate this issue to the lemmy.world admin team.

            That was kind of what I was attempting to do here.

            So you’re attempting to escalate the issue to the admins… but not because you’re upset or anything. Right. In that case, why are you trying to waste their time?

            All the rest of your points are completely irrelevant and I don’t care about them at all.

            • Ace T'Ken@lemmy.caOPEnglish
              0·
              2 months ago

              or would you care to restate everything poorly and in bad faith once again

              You weren’t supposed to pick this option.

              The post you’re citing was not the 7 month old one I was referencing anywhere. Also, the one you cherry-picked was from a year ago and isn’t anti-vegan either. It’s anti-logically unsound argument (kind of like this one here). I can agree with a stance and disagree with the reason someone does something. I agree with multiple reasons to be vegan explicitly in the post you cite.

              And escalating the issue is in concern about the hundreds of rampant bannings, not the veganism.

              Also, if that was what you call a parody, you are pretty terrible at parody.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
                0·
                2 months ago

                Do you mean:

                If you want to be vegan because you enjoy it? Go for it. That is inarguable.

                If you want to be vegan because you feel it’s healthier? Rock on. Go you. You may be right if you carefully monitor your diet. I would argue against it being better than vegetarian however.

                Because neither of those is an argument for veganism. Veganism is not a diet, it’s a moral stance. Every case of considering it from the perspective of being a moral stance, as it is, you’re opposed to. So all of your arguments are against veganism, as it actually is.

                Of course, the garbage that you pass off as “logic” is just, “It’s wrong to apply your morals to other people,” which is a completely laughable position. You “apply your morals to other people” if you think its acceptable to punish murder. You “apply your morals to other people” if you tell people it’s wrong to apply your morals to other people. But sure, it’s only “logically unsound arguments” that you’re opposed to, which is why you employ them.

                • Ace T'Ken@lemmy.caOPEnglish
                  0·
                  2 months ago

                  You are most certainly purposefully misunderstanding things at this stage.

                  Yes, I wasn’t arguing for (or against) veganism and never stated I was. I was arguing against reasons some may give and defending logical ones.

                  No, veganism isn’t a moral stance. It CAN BE a personal moral stance as well as a dietary one, but morality is not required and may not factor into it. It may be for YOU, but perhaps a person’s stomach just handles meat poorly in some fashion and therefore they choose not to partake. Don’t claim that everyone in a group must also ascribe to your moral stance. They do not.

                  And no, punishing murder is not a moral stance, it’s a self-preservationist stance. If you can go out and murder indiscriminately, then you yourself can be murdered just as easily.

                  I’m sorry you don’t understand logic. Please don’t attempt to explain to me one of my degrees when you clearly don’t have even a loose grasp on the concept. Here’s a free course you can take to better understand logic as opposed to a personal moral stance.

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
                    1·
                    2 months ago

                    No veganism isn’t a moral stance. It CAN BE a personal moral stance as well as a dietary one, but morality is not required and may not factor into it. It may be for YOU, but perhaps a person’s stomach just handles meat poorly in some fashion and therefore they choose not to partake. Don’t claim that everyone must ascribe to your moral stance. They do not.

                    That simply isn’t what the word means. If you think veganism is a diet, then do you think vegan leather is meant to be eaten?

                    Oreos used to use lard, in the 90’s, they changed the recipe to use vegetable oil to make it kosher, and also, coincidentally, vegan. I suppose this hypothetical “vegan purely for taste” person just happened to hate Oreos right up until then, even though they taste the same. They must have the most sensitive tongue in the world. “The Princess and the Pea” has nothing on them.

                    You suggest that someone’s stomach “handles meat poorly,” but that would just lead them to be a vegetarian. Does their stomach also “just happen” to handle dairy, eggs, lard, gelatin, etc poorly too? Does wearing leather give them a rash? If animals are harmed in the production of something, but no part of the animal made it into the finished product, do they, what, get assailed by malevolent spirits?

                    You are simply wrong about this, and your position on what veganism is is completely incoherent and nonsensical if you stop and think about it for 10 seconds, let alone actually read anything about it.

                    Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products—particularly in diet—and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals.

                    I am begging lost Redditors to read literally the first sentence of Wikipedia about a subject before trying to speak as an authority on it.