You’re choosing to interpret what I said as passing down suffering. This shows that you don’t actually want a Jewish perspective and want to assume that circumcision causes us to suffer and that we just want to pass that down. You don’t actually want to listen to what I have to say.

I’ll try anyway. Many Jews, both secular and religious, circumcise their children because they themselves did not experience suffering from the circumcision. Some do, sure, but the vast majority of circumcisions are without complications, and those done on Jews do not cause the same level of resentment on the same scale as when non-Jews do it because non-Jews don’t have the cultural context or connection that circumcision provides Jews. That’s what circumcision is for: It’s never to cause suffering. It’s to connect Jews to Judaism in a way that only we understand because there is an inherent, intrinsic, inextricable quality to being born a new that cannot be explained to someone who isn’t Jewish, just like there is with any other culture. If you’re black, there are things about the black experience that you understand but will never be able to get me to understand. Same with being a woman, or gay, or trans.

I’ll also add this: Ask your Jewish friends if they were traumatized by their circumcision. Then all your non-Jewish circumcised friends. I guarantee that there will be some differences in their answers. In the case that a Jew was, in fact, traumatized by their own circumcision, they’ll be much less likely to do it for their own kids.

I’m the modem day, you’ll find that among secular Jews, rates of circumcision are much closer to those of religious Jews than of non-Jews. Why do you think that is?

And yet, the majority of Jews see that evidence and, even if they’re not religious, make the conscious decision to circumcise because they want their children to experience what they did, and are aware of what it meant for them. That’s what circumcision does for the experience of being Jewish.

That’s a valid take and I understand your perspective. The major thing people have a problem with is the lack of consent, which is also one of the main issues that Jewish parents struggle with when deciding whether or not to circumcise. It’s a difficult thought to wrestle with, and I understand and don’t judge parents who don’t do it, but I also understand and don’t judge parents who do, because it’s a deeply personal thing.

You will never know what it’s like to be a Jew, so I can’t convince you of the Jewish experience. And metzitzah b’peh causes actual permanent harm. It was common practice before the advent of modern medicine and has thankfully died down significantly since then. Like everyone else, most Jewish communities learn and grow with the times.

If it was as simple as “The book says to do it, so we do it,” I’d be inclined to believe you, but as a secular Jew, I believe that the stories told in Jewish scripture are just stories. Many of them have good morals for the modern day, many are clearly products of their time and have outdated morals. However, one of the few things that secular Jews maintained to hold on to their cultural identity as Jews in the face of the history of threats to our way of life was the practice of circumcision, because it’s the strongest way to tie us to that identity, as has been shown through thousands of years of evidence-based practice. Of course circumcision doesn’t make you a Jew, as the question of “Who is a Jew?” is its own can of worms, but it’s the thing that makes Jews “feel” the lost like Jews. It’s why, even among secular Jews, resentment for circumcision is much lower than the unnecessarily circumcised non-Jews: It connects us to something greater than ourselves and makes us feel like we’re part of it. Even if we don’t practice, even if we don’t believe in God or that the Scriptures are true stories, a Jew is a Jew. Coincidentally, “a Jew is a Jew” is the only answer to the question of “Who is a Jew?” that every sane and rational Jew can agree on.

Circumcision connects Jews to our culture in a profound way in which you can “feel” the fact that you are part of a long line of a tribe whose way of life has been (partly) preserved over the course of thousands of years despite the efforts of other nations to erase it. To break that chain is to take something away from the Jew, or at least that’s how they often end up feeling if they know they’re Jewish. A lot of religious Jews point to it being the sign of Abraham’s covenant with God, but for Jews who don’t believe that, there is still the element of being a part of something greater than yourself and being a unique culture apart from the other nations, and a constant reminder that yes, you are a Jew, and you have not only the power, but the obligation, to decide what that means for yourself and the family you choose.

There’s a lot more to it than that, but that’s the most basic and succinct way to understand it. The rest of it is more the feeling you get from knowing that you are part of this culture. There are just some intrinsic things you can’t put into words

Metzitzah b’peh (using the mouth to suck up blood from the circumcision) is barbaric and absolutely unacceptable. It’s done by backwards, batshit insane insular communities. That picture has done so much damage to public opinion on Jews because they start to believe that that’s what circumcision is. Please educate yourself on actual, rational Jewish perspectives on the matter.

In Judaism, it’s a lot more complicated than that binary, not just because being Jewish means different things to different people, but because of the history of Judaism from its inception up to now. The issue of consent is a very real one that many parents struggle with during the process of making the decision of whether or not to circumcise.

This is a true and valid component of the decision that Jews like me struggle with.

This is what I’m talking about. Absolutely baseless and abhorrent.

I understand that perspective. From a non-Abrahamic view, the practice seems inherently wrong, and would be if a non-Jew or non-Muslim did it. People who aren’t part of those cultures often resent the fact that it was done to them, but the rate of resentment is drastically lower among people who have the context of being part of those cultures. This is true not just for religious Jews, but secular ones like me as well, at least from the pool of people I’ve had access to ask about it. That’s why it’s a lot more complicated for Jews, because that adds a significant weight to the pro-circumcision side of the scale. I’m not saying it’s right for every Jew, but every Jewish family decides whether or not it’s right for them. I had some resentment as a kid, but then I did my own research and learning about Judaism and got the necessary context and now I’m personally glad it was done, and if it wasn’t done to me, I’d struggle with the decision of whether or not do to it while in adulthood, because of the added risks of complications as opposed to having it done as a baby. This is why he’s perspectives need to be listened to on this matter: Because we experienced it. Not listening to us about our own lives is both a product of and predecessor to antisemitism.

Christianity doesn’t command circumcision, as it supercedes Abraham’s covenant with the sacrifice of Jesus. Islam still maintains Abraham’s covenant of circumcision but not the commandments of Moses, replacing those with the laws of Mohammed. Not all Jews circumcise, and any sane and rational rabbi knows that they can recommend their perspective all they want, but they cannot command a person to decide what’s best for their family. Though I can’t speak for Islam, every Jewish circumcision except for those done in cultish, insular communities is done as a personal decision by the individual family.

Ah, I’m really sorry that happened to you.

There are plenty of Jews who don’t circumcise, and that was a personal decision made for their family.

I was wrong to imply that our culture necessitates circumcision itself. What I should have said was that the culture necessitates further discussion for an individual family to know if it’s right for them. That was my fault for using misleading language.

I became aware of it in my teens, and it’s only grown over time in my adulthood.

I don’t advocate in favor of it in any capacity. Perhaps I wasn’t clear but I should clarify: I, as a Jew, am not going to tell other Jews how to be Jews. Circumcision is the individual family’s decision to wrestle with. However, non-Jews don’t have the context that we do, so I believe that they shouldn’t do it. I’m not versed enough in Islam to be able to tell them anything, but I know that non-Abrahamic peoples, plus Christians since their scripture doesn’t tell them to circumcise, shouldn’t do it because for them, the drawbacks definitely outweigh the benefits. I know for sure that in specifically my case, the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, and this has been the case for many Jews that I know the personal stories of, both religious and secular. But for any individual Jew that is home to have children, they will have context that non-Jews won’t have, and because of that, they may have a tougher decision to make than most.

That’s an understandable position, and I won’t debate it because I agree with a lot of your points. It’s often done barbarously without anesthesia, and much of the practice of it needs to be reformed, especially in insular religious communities. Metzitzah b’peh, for example, is absolutely unacceptable and needs to be abolished.

I can only speak to my own experiences and those of the Jews I’ve talked to. I will say that I was never told how to feel about my circumcision, only that it happened and that it was done because we’re Jewish. I was raised extremely secular and still largely live my life as a secular Jew. I didn’t understand why it was done at first, and I feel the way I feel about it because of Jewish learning that I’ve done on my own that was not guided by anyone other than myself and my wife. I understand why it seems that I’m brainwashed, but it was truly wholly my decision formed by my experience as a Jewish humanist who finds value in embracing my Jewish heritage and culture, even if I don’t believe that the foundations of it were divinely ordained or that anyone truly spoke to a divine being or that an intelligent designer created the universe.

I can only give you my word that I am not indoctrinated into any system of belief, and that my personal, unique system of belief was shaped by my own learning from a variety of sources, both secular and religious. Jews have a saying: Two Jews, three opinions. Any sane and rational Jew welcomes debate and discourse in good faith.