It’s not about the data, it’s about the algorithm. Unlike other social media which has followers, subscribers etc. that dictate what you see tik tok is a pure black box recommendation algorithm. Tons of people’s world views are shaped by tik tok and a slight tweak to this algorithm can have huge political consequences. I’m far from a china hawk but even I can recognize the dangers of allowing that sort of machine to be in the hands of a foreign rival. Ideally we’d take it out of the hands of the corporate interests running the ones here in the u.s. as well and force them to be open sour e, but that doesn’t seem possible right now and at least those companies are more beholden to the American people then byte dance, there are American employees in those companies that can raise a red flag if management is telling them to push the algorithm in a direction.
The youth also probably won’t care in a years time. Even if tik tok actually shuts down in the u.s. instead of selling, which I still doubt they will as that would effectively be burning 10s of billions of dollars to prove a point, the youth can just move onto another app like Instagram reels or YouTube shorts which offer the same experience but aren’t as good because of the mass network effect tik tok has. If everyone is forced out of tik tok and onto one of the other apps they’ll gain that same network effect and have the same experience after a bit of transition/ AI training time. The kids aren’t attached to byte dance or tik tok, they’re attached to the content and content creators who make it, and those can move to another app very easily.
I appreciate your comment but let me ask you. Are you OK with the federal government getting to decide what is appropriate for you to read or watch?
I read the 3 body problem novel series and it was by a Chinese author. I loved the series and it dealt with a lot of interesting science fiction concepts.
Do you think that it should be banned? What if it’s subtly influencing Americans through propaganda?
If the choice is between the u.s. government and the Chinese government choosing what’s appropriate for me to watch then I’d choose the u.s government as it is still has some democratic levers which the American people can use to stop it from propagandizing too much. There is no such influence they can wield in the Chinese government. I’m not ok with it though and it’s more a matter of the lesser of two evils. Ideally there would be no centralized control over these services and the algorithms would be open source and the servers federated, to allow people to transparently evaluate the biases each service has and make their own decision free from the centralizing network effect present in current social media. If I am unable to inspect it then I want the person who is able to do so to have interests that are better aligned with mine, either an elected representative or at least a worker with similar national interests to me.
As for the book question it’s not a matter of a single book. Unless they’re advocating for atrocities I’m for any creator being allowed on the platform, the problem is how the platform is showing that content, it’s a matter of the book store instead of a single book. If the library has a copy of the three body problem, or even Maos little red book alongside a bunch of other books countering it then that’s fine. But if there’s no library and only one book store in town then the owner of that book store has a lot of political power and should be under a lot of scrutiny. If the owner of that store isn’t a part of the community and doesn’t have interests that align with it, or even run counter to it, then the people of that community are right to become skeptical and demand a more open system. This is why libraries are so important, they provide an information repository owned by the public instead of private interests.
You are creating a false equivalence here. China is not choosing what is valid or not. They are not preventing you from visiting any other platform. The US government, however, is stepping in and preventing you from visiting a specific platform.
Ideally I agree with you everything would be transparent and open source and we would all be singing hakunah matata.
But if the issue is an opaque system of AI Blackbox algorithms then why target TikTok? All social medias use the same exact principles.
unable to inspect it then I want the person who is able to do so to have interests that are better aligned with mine, either an elected representative or at least a worker with similar national interests to me.
So instead of deciding for yourself, you would rather hand it off to the paternalistic state?
Because newsflash- the executives of TikTok and the CCP officials behind them have less incentive to screw you than the American big tech executives and the federal officials behind them.
a matter of the book store instead of a single book
If we were to use your analogy, it’s not a book store but a farmer’s market. Anyone can set up shop and sell whatever they want.
Your stated issue is that the management of the farmer’s market has the capacity to suppress or amplify certain items depending on their interests.
The problem I see is that what if the American citizen, being fully aware of the bias of this farmer’s market, wants to go on there anyway?
Why should his right be infringed?
Note that the government used very specific language in the ban. There’s a difference between a ban on speech based on the content and one that is content neutral.
For example if I ban a farmer’s market because of a safety issue, that’s a content neutral ban. If I ban because they are selling things I don’t want, that’s a content based ban.
The government is very explicit that this is a content-neutral ban. They claim in the legislation it’s for the explicit purpose of preventing China from collecting data.
Of course, that is nonsense and the real reason is the same one you mention - a content-based justification. Why didn’t they say it?
Because the legal scrutiny for infringing on speech for content-based justification is much higher, and the government would not meet that scrutiny.
It’s not about the data, it’s about the algorithm. Unlike other social media which has followers, subscribers etc. that dictate what you see tik tok is a pure black box recommendation algorithm. Tons of people’s world views are shaped by tik tok and a slight tweak to this algorithm can have huge political consequences. I’m far from a china hawk but even I can recognize the dangers of allowing that sort of machine to be in the hands of a foreign rival. Ideally we’d take it out of the hands of the corporate interests running the ones here in the u.s. as well and force them to be open sour e, but that doesn’t seem possible right now and at least those companies are more beholden to the American people then byte dance, there are American employees in those companies that can raise a red flag if management is telling them to push the algorithm in a direction.
The youth also probably won’t care in a years time. Even if tik tok actually shuts down in the u.s. instead of selling, which I still doubt they will as that would effectively be burning 10s of billions of dollars to prove a point, the youth can just move onto another app like Instagram reels or YouTube shorts which offer the same experience but aren’t as good because of the mass network effect tik tok has. If everyone is forced out of tik tok and onto one of the other apps they’ll gain that same network effect and have the same experience after a bit of transition/ AI training time. The kids aren’t attached to byte dance or tik tok, they’re attached to the content and content creators who make it, and those can move to another app very easily.
I appreciate your comment but let me ask you. Are you OK with the federal government getting to decide what is appropriate for you to read or watch?
I read the 3 body problem novel series and it was by a Chinese author. I loved the series and it dealt with a lot of interesting science fiction concepts.
Do you think that it should be banned? What if it’s subtly influencing Americans through propaganda?
If the choice is between the u.s. government and the Chinese government choosing what’s appropriate for me to watch then I’d choose the u.s government as it is still has some democratic levers which the American people can use to stop it from propagandizing too much. There is no such influence they can wield in the Chinese government. I’m not ok with it though and it’s more a matter of the lesser of two evils. Ideally there would be no centralized control over these services and the algorithms would be open source and the servers federated, to allow people to transparently evaluate the biases each service has and make their own decision free from the centralizing network effect present in current social media. If I am unable to inspect it then I want the person who is able to do so to have interests that are better aligned with mine, either an elected representative or at least a worker with similar national interests to me.
As for the book question it’s not a matter of a single book. Unless they’re advocating for atrocities I’m for any creator being allowed on the platform, the problem is how the platform is showing that content, it’s a matter of the book store instead of a single book. If the library has a copy of the three body problem, or even Maos little red book alongside a bunch of other books countering it then that’s fine. But if there’s no library and only one book store in town then the owner of that book store has a lot of political power and should be under a lot of scrutiny. If the owner of that store isn’t a part of the community and doesn’t have interests that align with it, or even run counter to it, then the people of that community are right to become skeptical and demand a more open system. This is why libraries are so important, they provide an information repository owned by the public instead of private interests.
You are creating a false equivalence here. China is not choosing what is valid or not. They are not preventing you from visiting any other platform. The US government, however, is stepping in and preventing you from visiting a specific platform.
Ideally I agree with you everything would be transparent and open source and we would all be singing hakunah matata.
But if the issue is an opaque system of AI Blackbox algorithms then why target TikTok? All social medias use the same exact principles.
So instead of deciding for yourself, you would rather hand it off to the paternalistic state?
Because newsflash- the executives of TikTok and the CCP officials behind them have less incentive to screw you than the American big tech executives and the federal officials behind them.
If we were to use your analogy, it’s not a book store but a farmer’s market. Anyone can set up shop and sell whatever they want.
Your stated issue is that the management of the farmer’s market has the capacity to suppress or amplify certain items depending on their interests.
The problem I see is that what if the American citizen, being fully aware of the bias of this farmer’s market, wants to go on there anyway?
Why should his right be infringed?
Note that the government used very specific language in the ban. There’s a difference between a ban on speech based on the content and one that is content neutral.
For example if I ban a farmer’s market because of a safety issue, that’s a content neutral ban. If I ban because they are selling things I don’t want, that’s a content based ban.
The government is very explicit that this is a content-neutral ban. They claim in the legislation it’s for the explicit purpose of preventing China from collecting data.
Of course, that is nonsense and the real reason is the same one you mention - a content-based justification. Why didn’t they say it?
Because the legal scrutiny for infringing on speech for content-based justification is much higher, and the government would not meet that scrutiny.