• TypicalHog@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    32
    ·
    6 months ago

    It only matters if the autopilot does more kills than an average human driver on the same distance traveled.

    • NIB@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      38
      ·
      6 months ago

      If the cars run over people while going 30kmh because they use cameras and a bug crashed into the camera and that caused the car to go crazy, that is not acceptable, even if the cars crash “less than humans”.

      Self driving needs to be highly regulated by law and demand to have some bare minimum sensors, including radars, lidars, etc. Camera only self driving is beyond stupid. Cameras cant see in snow or dark or whatever. Anyone who has a phone knows how fucky the camera can get under specific light exposures, etc.

      Noone but tesla is doing camera only “self driving” and they are only doing it in order to cut down the cost. Their older cars had more sensors than their newer cars. But Musk is living in his Bioshock uber capitalistic dream. Who cares if a few people die in the process of developing visual based self driving.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm2x6CVIXiE

      • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        6 months ago

        What are you? Some kind of lidar shill? Camera only should obviously be the endgame goal for all robots. Also, this article is not even about camera only.

          • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            6 months ago

            Because that’s expensive and can be done with a camera. And once you figure the camera stuff out - you gucci. Now you can do all kinds of shit without needing a lidar on every single robot.

            • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              6 months ago

              Because that’s expensive and can be done with a camera.

              Expensive, as in probably less than $600? Compared to the $35000 cost of a tesla?

              (comparing the cost of the iPhone 12 (without lidar) and iPhone 12 pro (with lidar), we can guess that the sensor probably costs less than $200, so 3 of them (for left, right, and front) would cost probably less than $600)

              lidar can actually be very cheap and small. Unfortunately, Apple bought the only company that seems to make sensors like that (besides some other super high end models)

              There have been a lot of promising research papers on the technology lately though, so I expect more, higher resolution and cheaper lidar sensors to be available relatively soon (next couple years probably).

              • Grippler@feddit.dk
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                6 months ago

                Yeah that’s not even remotely the same type of sensor used in robotics and autonomous cars. Yes lidar is getting cheaper, but for high detail long range detection they’re much more expensive than the case of your iphone example. The iPhone “lidar” is less than useless in an automotive context.

              • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                6 months ago

                Perhaps. Idk, maybe I’m wrong. But it for sure seems it would be so much better if we achieved the same shit with a cheaper and more primitive simpler sensor.

                • BURN@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  6 months ago

                  To get the same resolution and quality of image in all lighting scenarios, cameras are actually going to be more expensive than LiDAR. Cameras suffer in low light, low contrast situations due to the physical limitations of bending light. More light = bigger lenses = higher cost, when LiDAR works better and is cheaper

        • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          6 months ago

          Camera only should obviously be the endgame goal for all robots.

          I can’t tell if you’re a moron or attempting sarcasm but this is the least informed opinion I’ve seen in ages.

          • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            6 months ago

            I wasn’t attempting sarcasm, so maybe I’m a moron idk. Fair, it likely I’m uninformed. I just know my daddy Elon said something about how solving shit with camera only is probably the best path and will pay off.

    • Geobloke@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      6 months ago

      No it doesn’t. Every life stolen matters and if it could be found that if tesla could have replicated industry best practice and saved more lives so that they could sell more cars then that is on them

    • PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee
      cake
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      6 months ago

      This is the actual logical way to think about self driving cars. Stop down voting him because “Tesla bad” you fuckin goons.

      • gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        6 months ago

        Tesla’s self driving appears to be less safe and causes more accidents than their competitors.

        “NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation said in documents released Friday that it completed “an extensive body of work” which turned up evidence that “Tesla’s weak driver engagement system was not appropriate for Autopilot’s permissive operating capabilities.”

        Tesla bad.

        • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          6 months ago

          Can you link me the data that says Tesla’s competitors self-driving is more safe and causes less accidents and WHICH ONES? I would really like to know who else has this level of self-driving while also having less accidents.

        • PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee
          cake
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          My argument is that self driving car fatalities have to be compared against human driven car fatalities. If the self driving cars kill 500 people a year, but humans kill 1000 people a year, which one is better. Logic clearly isn’t your strong suit, maybe sit this one out…

        • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          I SAID: “IT ONLY MATTERS IF AUTOPILOT CAUSES MORE NET DEATHS PER MILE TRAVELED RATHER THAN LESS, WHEN COMPARED TO HUMAN DRIVERS!”

    • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      6 months ago

      this is bullshit.

      A human can be held accountable for their failure, bet you a fucking emerald mine Musk won’t be held accountable for these and all the other fool self drive fuckups.

      • sabin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        So you’d rather live in a world where people die more often, just so you can punish the people who do the killing?

        • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          6 months ago

          That’s a terrifically misguided interpretation of what I said, wow.

          LISTEN UP BRIGHT LIGHTS, ACCOUNTABILITY ISN’T A LUXURY. It’s not some ‘nice to have add-on’.

          Musk’s gonna find out. Gonna break all his fanboys’ hearts too.

          • sabin@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            6 months ago

            Nothing was misguided and if anything your tone deaf attempt to double down only proves the point I’m making.

            This stopped being about human deaths for you a long time ago.

            Let’s not even bother to ask the question of whether or not this guy could ultimately be saving lives. All that matters to you is that you have a target to take your anger out on the event that a loved one dies in an accident or something.

            You are shallow beyond belief.

            • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              6 months ago

              This stopped being about human deaths for you a long time ago.

              Nope, it’s about accountability. The fact that you can’t see how important accountability is just says you’re a musk fan boy. If Musk would shut the fuck up and do the work, he’d be better off - instead he’s cheaping out left and right on literal life dependent tech, so tesla’s stock gets a bump. It’s ridiculous, like your entire argument.

              • sabin@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                6 months ago

                I don’t give a fuck about musk. I think hos Hyperloop is beyond idiotic and nothing he makes fucking works. In fact I never even said I necessarily think the state of Tesla autopilot is acceptable. All I said was that categorically rejecting autopilot (even for future generations where tech can be much better) for the express purpose of being able to prosecute people is beyond empty and shallow.

                If you need to make up lies about me and strawman me to disagree you only prove my point. You stopped being a rational agent who weighs the good and bad of things a long time ago. You don’t care about how good the autopilot is or can be. All you care about is your mental fixation against the CEO of the company in question.

                Your political opinions should be based on principles, not whatever feels convenient in the moment.

                • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  6 months ago

                  You stopped being a rational agent who weighs the good and bad of things a long time ago.

                  sure thing, you stan musk for no reason, and call me irrational. pfft. gonna block you now, tired of your bullshit

      • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        Where did I say that a human shouldn’t be held accountable for what their car does?