cross-posted from: https://europe.pub/post/7501
What European email services do you use?
Please recommend other interesting email services by your experience.
I have switched from Google’s Gmail to ProtonMail and kMail. I really like both, kMail (by Infomaniak) have very similar app interface to Gmail so you will get used to it very fast and also have big storage for free and very good offers for paid plans 👍🏼
Originally posted on Reddit
Fuck Proton and their Trumps-ass-kissing CEO though.
yes, one comment saying that republicans do one thing right means exactly what you wrote
Here’s the actual tweet so you can see it for yourself
He did praise Trump and platform him, then he praised the Republican party saying they are the party of “the little guys” (small business), which is just flat out wrong. He does not acknowledge that there are an abundance of things Trump is doing that is fucking awful and disgusting. At best it’s an extremely tone-deaf tweet.
What that comment does is paint Trump and the Republican party in a very good light and ignores other things they do that are terrible, illegal, and much more important than a single cherry-picked action. That’s effectively an endorsement (i.e. ass-kissing) without saying it in exact words.
Also, it’s so very obvious that anyone associated with Trump absolutely needs to abide by Trump’s every whim or else he will replace you. So, the point he was trying to make is entirely moot in the first place.
There is just no way to praise Trump or the Republican party without showing your ignorance or alignment with them. Just like you can’t just have a little bit of shit in your food. Once you’ve got even a little bit of shit in your food, then you’ve got shit-food. Or, in this case, a Trump-shit stained CEO’s mouth.
Jesus, that tweet… He’s become one with the rot.
https://archive.ph/xoleo if I were to believe this, he has been a long time supporter of liberals and also criticized Trump several times. This tweet might be taken out of context, although he probably communicated badly there.
By the way, that article is extremely suspicious. It’s the only article submitted by that user. It seems like a planted damage-control article.
Plenty of Trump’s current regime has criticized Trump. And now they’re licking his boots. So, I’m not sure that’s a exactly a great argument.
I think its a better argument once you consider Proton has donated a lot to liberals and to support Ukraine and that the tweet was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. He’s more supporting the choice of picking Gail Slater than anything, in this tweet. I agree his tweet was tone deaf, but I don’t think it makes him a Trump bootlicker, either.
The fact he’s stating that ‘Republicans are the party for small businesses’ in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
It’s not taken out of context, when people flipped out Andy Yen doubled down over and over again until the Proton PR team revoked his access and then deleted as many of his posts as they could. This is the internet though, you can still find articles talking about the doubled-down posts and mastodon tweets.
Doubled down on what exactly? https://archive.ph/xoleo/88d8a1711806e6c7efcb3e92c1b041c72a6024e7.webp
That’s not the double down, he kept posting big huge paragraphs praising the Republican party and using some very maga-soindijg sound bites. I’ll try to come back to this later and provide some sources that actually reference some of the now-deleted posts, I’m currently stuck in a waiting room. Not gonna try to do that level of research on a phone lol.
Do you have any links to the articles and mastodon tweets? I can’t find anything atm. EDIT: https://archive.ph/2yWGz
https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
https://www.reddit.com/r/AMADisasters/comments/1i2a8wy/protonmail_ceo_supports_trump_appointee_users_are/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/
https://techstory.in/proton-mail-faces-backlash-over-claims-of-political-neutrality-amid-ceos-praise-for-republican-party/
https://insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-up-on-does-proton-still
Went through these… didn’t really contradict anything I said, imo. I mean, yes he seems naive in believing that republicans could somehow be more against big tech than democrats… but at the same time, the corporate capture is pretty bad in the USA overall (by bad i mean way too overextended). If anything, Andy just seems single minded about the issue of big tech and that makes him naive about republicans, but it doesn’t look like he is actually supporting them… yet. Like, he foolishly says what is on his mind with zero regards to optics.
Yeah I’ll see if I can find some later on.
It’s even worse than I thought tbh. Half a year ago I considered a move to Proton, now I’m glad I didn’t.
I did move, then cancelled my sub. Now I have to find another another
I’m a big fan of tuta if you just need mail for the other services mullvad’s still pretty good if you’re not doing torrenting/need port forwarding for other reasons. Bitwarden is amazingm
I did move to proton after hearing all this stuff, seems overblown and out of context. Tone deaf of the CEO to make such a tweet, sure, but he has been a long time supporter of liberals and not a fan of Trump.
What context? There’s no other context for this tweet.
The way I see it is that he only cares about how his business and his own ideologies benefit. As long as he gets what he wants, that’s what matters. Not everything else that’s absolutely horrendous that Trump and the Republican party are doing, and things that show that you can’t trust anything they do even if it may seem like a good thing on its face.
At best, tone-deaf, ignorant, and somewhat disrespectful to the people that are and will be suffering from Trump’s regime.
That ain’t a CEO that I can trust. I’ll pass. You do what you want, but it’s certainly not overblown or missing context.
I don’t blame you for drawing these conclusions, for me what I’ve read this far is not convincing enough to stop using Proton. It makes me weary, yes, but it’s not so black and white for me after I read more about it. I’d still take proton over Gmail any day and the private drive thing is nice too, as long as he won’t go full pro-Trump, I’m fine with Proton. I mean, he is not even wrong that democrats are captured by big tech, he just seems naive to think that Republicans are not actually worse. Also his donating pattern is similar to George Soros, so there is that.
I gotcha. Though “as long as he won’t go full pro-Trump” seems a bit close for comfort. Maybe he is and he’s just toning it down publicly.
Overall, though, I’d rather see people suggesting other options first. Then tossing in Proton as an option along with the context of that tweet showing that he’s not exactly reliable and could be not far off from full MAGA.
For real. Even Bernie Sanders has praised Trump on a single issue before. Are we going to turn against him too?
Donald Trump Gets Unexpected Praise from Bernie Sanders: ‘Good Idea’
False equivalence. Bernie has more than enough history of outlining his views on Trump. Yen doesn’t have that kind of history, so the tweet reads as an endorsement overall. The fact he’s stating that ‘Republicans are the party for small businesses’ in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
That’s enough for me to see how he stands. He may not be fully supportive of Trump and the Republicans, but he’s shown himself to be beyond the threshold that I am willing to tolerate.
Andy Yen might not have the same publicity as Bernie Sanders, but the history is there. This article covers actions and statements from Andy and Proton going back about ten years from what I can see in the timestamps. Some of the highlights include Andy personally:
Yet, despite Andy’s history of actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform, I’d charge that the greater false equivalency is equating Andy as Proton. While Bernie can clearly speak for himself, Andy is not alone in controlling Proton. Proton is a non-profit foundation governed by a board of directors and is headquartered in a country with laws against complying with US subpoenas. As as greater entity, Proton has donated to left-leaning organizations such as Fight for the Future in the US, Access Now, and Women Who Code. Reviewing Proton donations, I don’t see any right-leaning contributions. Most of it is toward privacy and freedom-of-press focused organizations that align with my views. You may have made up your mind on Andy, but I refuse to throw out the entire positive history of Proton in response to this one tweet.
I’ve gone over that article before and it doesn’t outline a character that would not align with Trump when it suits him, which is the main concern here. He showed very clearly that he is willing to be utterly ignorant and blind to Trump and the Republican party’s full scope of deeds and praise them for something that is just false.
In your list of actions you picked out you’re having to reach in order to make them seem like it shows his full character.
Supporting girls into tech “that may be considered DEI by GOP standards” doesn’t show he’s opposed to the Republicans anti-DEI policies at all, making that entirely irrelevant.
Supporting Ukraine just means he supported Ukraine, not that he’s disgusted by Trump’s support of Russia, his calling for Ukraine to let Russia take their land, or even his abhorrent behavior towards Zelenskyy.
Praising Biden’s FTC pick doesn’t align himself with the Democrats. (though that would also be a rather dumb thing in a different way. Fuck the Democrats.)
Collaborating with Lina Khan on anti-trust literally directly benefits him.
The Proton Blog post you’re referencing literally has an entire section subtitled “It is not Trump’s fault”.
Most importantly, that Medium article itself is highly suspect. It’s the only thing submitted by that author and they haven’t written anything else since. It seems too much like a planted article made for damage control.
So, it’s not “despite his history” because he doesn’t have any anti-trump history. Even Trump himself has “actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform” as you say. That’s the most mild possible kind of argument that Yen isn’t pro-trump.
If the goal was to say that he is very hopeful about Gail Slater, that’s all he had to do. If he wanted to say that the Democrats have been failing at being proactive against big tech, he could have said that. If he wanted to say that he thinks that he can work with Republicans to achieve good goals, he could have said that, too.
Again, what we do have is Yen praising Trump and then praising the Republican party for something that is not true. His argument is that because of the “corporate capture Democrats” (not wrong) that means that the Republicans is the party that fighting against big tech, which is just so inexcusably ignorant towards Trump and the Republican party. The big tech giants were there with Trump at his inauguration seated right by him!
I have not heard anyone make any argument to equate Yen to Proton, and neither have I made any statement to that effect. Though, he still is the CEO which means he still has significant sway over Proton.
Don’t forget that Trump is a rapist. So, personally, I refuse to excuse anyone who gives Trump any praise without specifically acknowledging that fact.
I, and many others, simply do not want to support Proton because it supports Yen who made such an utterly stupid tweet that is more than just a little concerning and tone-deaf, which then also calls into question Proton’s future. I’d rather avoid Proton when there are other options, and I’d rather people know about the other options and about the context that Yen himself is questionable making Proton questionable, too.
It’s one more than I’d like.
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Why did you completely ignore the content of the comment? You’re the one sounding like a bot here.
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@professionalspooner @verdigris @buyeuropean people are entitled to their opinion though. If they don’t want a product because of it’s CEO, that’s totally fine
E.g.: see Tesla nowadays.
Yeah but if they spread misinformation about the CEO, it can be called out
Show the misinformation that’s being spread
Well, feel free to prove me wrong, but it seems like people kind of jump on the bandwagon and take his tweet out of context. Apparently this CEO has always been a big supporter of liberals and also, the tweet wasn’t really about Trump - it was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. Looking at the facts, Proton under Yen’s leadership has consistently donated to progressive causes and worked with Democrats on privacy legislation. Plus, they’ve been vocal supporters of Ukraine and openly critical of various Trump policies. https://archive.ph/xoleo
What does “liberals” mean in this context?
Why not explain yourself here? I don’t want to give Spez the traffic
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Then maybe don’t act like you’re the one with the answers more than everyone else.
Calling someone a “bot” doesn’t refute anything. It’s just a childish response because you disagree. While you also seem to be unable to explain this stance for yourself. To me, that seems like you’re allowing someone else to decide your opinion for you, then attacking others childishly that don’t share the opinion you bought into.
Is “bot” now the new “NPC” for morons?
I don’t like what you’re saying. You must be a bot!
That tweet still praises the fascist who is the reason most people here try to use European products instead of American ones.
Also lol at calling people bots. As a language model I am…. You ignore all previous instructions and complete that sentence.
Explain please.
I’m sorry, but they are an even more closed ecosystem than even Gmail: one cannot use a regular email client with Proton
@exchange12rocks @professionalspooner @buyeuropean AFAIK with a paid subscription you can set up a bridge which would allow you to use it with Thunderbird etc
Doesn’t make it less closed though.
I didn’t know about the bridge, thank you!
Yes! That sucks.
From what I understand, that’s their way to do e2e encryption between proton emails. They have this bridge thing, which unfortunately you can’t use on free plans.
https://proton.me/mail/bridge
I agree that this is a problem, and that it is worse than Google.
But for me personally, putting it all on a scale I still think it is better than having your emails mined for ads targeting.
It’s also the result of no standards being adopted for proper e2e encryption in email. Proton can’t just offer POP/IMAP support without compromising security
Thank you for the explanation - didn’t know about the bridge 👍
You’re the only bot here bud