I’ve always felt that the new Left’s obsession with Israel veils a great deal of unprocessed anti-Semitism, twisted in knots over the rules of identity and when it’s “okay” to have one. In the 60s and up until pretty recently, it was the KKK and John Birch Society that hated Israel. Leftists, like Noam Chomsky, were defenders of Israel.
At its core is the idea that “Jews aren’t victims anymore, but they’re allowed to contribute to the culture and express their identity as former victims of persecution, and that’s wrong.” Muddled up in this belief is all kinds of unpleasantness. Jewish people get to have their cake an eat it too, right? So it’s better to take the side of a population that has been so brutalized and manipulated that they actually believe in martyrdom.
I saw an anti-Israel march in my city not long ago. All these white “anarchist” kids were yelling “Mothers, daughters, all are martyrs!” I see little difference between them and neonazi skinhead punks.
I saw an anti-Israel march in my city not long ago. All these white “anarchist” kids were yelling “Mothers, daughters, all are martyrs!” I see little difference between them and neonazi skinhead punks.
Do you believe in martyrdom? I mean… What do you think “mothers, daughters, all are martyrs” is supposed to accomplish, other than cosplaying the noble partisan.
“Martyrs” does not inherently mean combatant; on the contrary, in the West martyrdom is more often associated with innocence and being targeted by unprovoked violence. By calling the mothers and daughters who are slaughtered by Israel martyrs, it emphasizes the injustice of their deaths while portraying them as more than victims.
I do not trust the anti-Israel sympathies, or should I say “Pro-Palestine” sympathies, of most people who are not directly involved in these places. They do not seem genuine to me. I’m sorry if that makes me sound like a monster. I’ve read Finkelstein and plenty of Chomsky, too. I think Norm is a monster for telling Israelis they should leave, and I think he is making things far worse for Palestinians. There is something very self-serving about the majority of Israeli sentiment I sense from my own political side of the aisle.
I doubt this will be a popular opinion here, and I don’t think there’s much to be gained from having to explain why I feel this way.
I agree with you that I have never been to Gaza. I have, however seen plenty of videos of literal hospitals and elementary schools and food lines being bombed and shot at. How can that possibly be dismissed?
I’ve read Finkelstein and plenty of Chomsky, too. I think Norm is a monster for telling Israelis they should leave, and I think he is making things far worse for Palestinians.
I find Chomsky grotesque in his campism, but to my knowledge Chomsky has only ever called for the settlements in Palestinian territory which are illegal by international law to be abandoned.
(Yes I saw your other reply, thank you. I want to branch off of that conversation to address something else you said here.) What makes anti-genocide protesters “anarchist kids”? Did they say as much? Also if you don’t mind for additional context, what region are you living in/describing?
It was a superficial judgment based on the appearance which they consciously chose to represent themselves with. They could be a number of other political ideologies, but it was a lazy lean on the customs of people I know and have known.
Genocide is the intentional, orchestrated elimination of a people based upon their ethnic identity or genetic makeup. If Israel wanted what the nazis wanted, or actually, let’s use a more recent and much older example: What the Turks wanted to happen to the Kurds, there would be no “ceasefires,” no “accords,” no “settlements.” Because if it were actually genocide, Palestinians would not be able to name their children with Palestinian names, they would have no division of land to live on, they would not be permitted to call themselves Palestinians, and, most importantly, they’d all be dead.
The use of the word “genocide” in this issue reinforces my belief that there is a subtle uninterrogated form of anti-Semitism that revolves around this issue. It feeds the current attacks on Jewish students at liberal arts schools in the United States. The word is chosen consciously to compare “what happened to them (the Jews)” with what “they are now doing (to Palestinians).” It is equivocation, and dishonest, and weird.
Weirder still, where are the protests concerning ethnocides and genocides of, say, the Uyghurs? There are one million of them currently residing in concentration camps without being accused of anything (as if it mattered). They are not permitted to grow their beards or express their culture freely. There is a network of cameras across China that can recognize people based upon their ethnic characteristics, which are used to oppress the various minority groups that have not been thoroughly Sinicized.
I sometimes feel like the political ideologies of my country are influenced mainly by determining what you aren’t. As I said, hatred of Israel in the 1960s was a KKK thing. Overall the Left appreciated their liberal policies (they are the only nation in the Middle East/N. African region that permits a Pride Parade, even still) and saw Palestine as fueled by the petroleum monarchs and a horribly backwards form of religion. I read somewhat recently of a Conservative Party minister railing about the injustices of the Chinese against the Uyghurs, ostensibly as part of a wider anti-China platform.
I do not trust in the majority of progressive interest in the Israel-Palestine issue. I think there’s only one solution, which is a one state solution. I am blown away that people on my side of the spectrum consider this “monsterish.”
I’ve always felt that the new Left’s obsession with Israel veils a great deal of unprocessed anti-Semitism, twisted in knots over the rules of identity and when it’s “okay” to have one. In the 60s and up until pretty recently, it was the KKK and John Birch Society that hated Israel. Leftists, like Noam Chomsky, were defenders of Israel.
At its core is the idea that “Jews aren’t victims anymore, but they’re allowed to contribute to the culture and express their identity as former victims of persecution, and that’s wrong.” Muddled up in this belief is all kinds of unpleasantness. Jewish people get to have their cake an eat it too, right? So it’s better to take the side of a population that has been so brutalized and manipulated that they actually believe in martyrdom.
I saw an anti-Israel march in my city not long ago. All these white “anarchist” kids were yelling “Mothers, daughters, all are martyrs!” I see little difference between them and neonazi skinhead punks.
Just for being anti-Israel? What?
Do you believe in martyrdom? I mean… What do you think “mothers, daughters, all are martyrs” is supposed to accomplish, other than cosplaying the noble partisan.
“Martyrs” does not inherently mean combatant; on the contrary, in the West martyrdom is more often associated with innocence and being targeted by unprovoked violence. By calling the mothers and daughters who are slaughtered by Israel martyrs, it emphasizes the injustice of their deaths while portraying them as more than victims.
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You….really need to expand on what you’ve said because right now you sound like a fucking monster.
I do not trust the anti-Israel sympathies, or should I say “Pro-Palestine” sympathies, of most people who are not directly involved in these places. They do not seem genuine to me. I’m sorry if that makes me sound like a monster. I’ve read Finkelstein and plenty of Chomsky, too. I think Norm is a monster for telling Israelis they should leave, and I think he is making things far worse for Palestinians. There is something very self-serving about the majority of Israeli sentiment I sense from my own political side of the aisle.
I doubt this will be a popular opinion here, and I don’t think there’s much to be gained from having to explain why I feel this way.
I agree with you that I have never been to Gaza. I have, however seen plenty of videos of literal hospitals and elementary schools and food lines being bombed and shot at. How can that possibly be dismissed?
I find Chomsky grotesque in his campism, but to my knowledge Chomsky has only ever called for the settlements in Palestinian territory which are illegal by international law to be abandoned.
(Yes I saw your other reply, thank you. I want to branch off of that conversation to address something else you said here.) What makes anti-genocide protesters “anarchist kids”? Did they say as much? Also if you don’t mind for additional context, what region are you living in/describing?
It was a superficial judgment based on the appearance which they consciously chose to represent themselves with. They could be a number of other political ideologies, but it was a lazy lean on the customs of people I know and have known.
Genocide is the intentional, orchestrated elimination of a people based upon their ethnic identity or genetic makeup. If Israel wanted what the nazis wanted, or actually, let’s use a more recent and much older example: What the Turks wanted to happen to the Kurds, there would be no “ceasefires,” no “accords,” no “settlements.” Because if it were actually genocide, Palestinians would not be able to name their children with Palestinian names, they would have no division of land to live on, they would not be permitted to call themselves Palestinians, and, most importantly, they’d all be dead.
The use of the word “genocide” in this issue reinforces my belief that there is a subtle uninterrogated form of anti-Semitism that revolves around this issue. It feeds the current attacks on Jewish students at liberal arts schools in the United States. The word is chosen consciously to compare “what happened to them (the Jews)” with what “they are now doing (to Palestinians).” It is equivocation, and dishonest, and weird.
Weirder still, where are the protests concerning ethnocides and genocides of, say, the Uyghurs? There are one million of them currently residing in concentration camps without being accused of anything (as if it mattered). They are not permitted to grow their beards or express their culture freely. There is a network of cameras across China that can recognize people based upon their ethnic characteristics, which are used to oppress the various minority groups that have not been thoroughly Sinicized.
I sometimes feel like the political ideologies of my country are influenced mainly by determining what you aren’t. As I said, hatred of Israel in the 1960s was a KKK thing. Overall the Left appreciated their liberal policies (they are the only nation in the Middle East/N. African region that permits a Pride Parade, even still) and saw Palestine as fueled by the petroleum monarchs and a horribly backwards form of religion. I read somewhat recently of a Conservative Party minister railing about the injustices of the Chinese against the Uyghurs, ostensibly as part of a wider anti-China platform.
I do not trust in the majority of progressive interest in the Israel-Palestine issue. I think there’s only one solution, which is a one state solution. I am blown away that people on my side of the spectrum consider this “monsterish.”
The alliance between progressives and Islamists is frightening and cursed.
Self styled Anarchists flying the nationalist flag of the Palestinians is another oxymoron.
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