I am sure it was discussed here before, but I can’t find a good way to search this community.
Are there any arguments against having a user’s identity federate, and be compatible across platforms?
For example, let us say I sign up with my instance, matcha_addict@lemy.lol
But what if I go on mastodon, and I want to have my own micro blog. Or maybe go to write freely and post some blog posts. I’d have to make a different account on each one.
What if mastodon or write freely could just let me log in with my lemmy account (or lets call it federated account). This has several benefits:
- users don’t have to scratch their head on if I am the same person or not across these platforms
- theoretically, someone following my feed can get updates on what I do on multiple platforms
Now I understand this would be difficult to implement and iron out all the edge cases, but am I missing anything on why it wouldn’t be a desirable feature, given it is implemented?
It is a matter of responsibility. If you can log into any lemmy instance or mastodon server with the same account, then which server takes responsibility for your actions in the fediverse?
I have seen instances be defederate from because of their lax account creation requirements, or because of harrasment from users from a specific instance.
If an account can log into any instance, then who is responsible for banning the account?
It is a matter of responsibility. If you can log into any lemmy instance or mastodon server with the same account, then which server takes responsibility for your actions in the fediverse?
This is a good point and I should clarify: in this model, you wouldn’t get open access to any instance. The instance has to explicitly trust (white list) instances from which it will accept log ins. It would be like federation is done today, but the lists would be separate ideally.
Another model is it could do it on a case-by-case basis on the user level instead of instance level. But it would still enable the user to keep their dame ID and original domain.
It will be difficult to implement and pretty much at the end of the list for the software you want to implement.
Users most of the time dont want to get identified ( some are here because of the privacy ) and if you want to get identified you can just use PGP signing.
PGP signing is cool but it does not grant the benefits I was talking about unfortunately :(
Yeah what you are directly talking is some sort of SSO login for each software.
Why does it actually matter? If you’re that important, you should have your own domain and instance
I already talked about why that matters in my post (didn’t mention anything about a person’s importance), but I’m happy to clarify and expand on it!
To summarize again, this would allow users to follow a person across platforms. Part of the benefit of the fediverse is I can choose to get content from a microblogging platform as well as macro blogging or threaded like lemmy. It would be a good feature for me to be able to follow someone across all federated platforms without having to scavenge for them.
Moreover, it would allow me to use other types of platforms without having to sign up on each one. This would also be useful for instance admins. If instance A trusts instance B, then it can allow instance B users to sign in without having to sign up separately.
This could also mean that instance A could be an identity provider only
Ooh that’s nice. Wasn’t Kbin trying to do this?
IMO, if you choose a common username (except for alt accounts) for all your platforms (in my case, dch82) it’s fairly easy to find all the accounts. If you want to, you can also link your other platforms in the bio.
If you choose a username, and I sign up with your same username before you do, then now you’re screwed. So I agree this is a solution, but it is not without faults. No one prevents someone from signing up with your username (either maliciously or they just liked the same name)
You can also setup a little linktree page and just have all your profiles link to that so you don’t have to update 10000 links on every profile.
AFAIK, the only practical thing in the way of having a separate server that just hosts identity accounts for all types of fediverse content (while the content itself is hosted on other servers) is that your host server is responsible for presenting the interface through which you view the rest of the fediverse, and the interfaces are specialized for a particular content type. You could have a server running a variety of fediverse software (mastodon, lemmy, etc.) which automatically generates similar accounts for each user on each service, so users could sign up once and then switch interfaces; but I think the rest of the fediverse would still treat them as separate identities.
I don’t understand the benefits.
users don’t have to scratch their head on if I am the same person or not across these platforms
They already don’t need to worry about that. Presumably if you could log in with your Lemmy user on Mastodon, your user domain would still refer to your Lemmy instance, just as it does currently. That’s besides the fact that I have no idea how this mechanism of logging into different sites would even work.
theoretically, someone following my feed can get updates on what I do on multiple platforms
They can already do that with the current mechanism. It’s only a problem with Lemmy not supporting various other forms of social media concepts that prevents you from writing, say, a toot (microblog).
It sounds like what you want is just a more generic ActivityPub instance that supports more forms of social constructs.
Aside from all that, there’s what other people have mentioned. Grouping users on instances has all kinds of moderation benefits.
So if every users would spin up their own instance or “email server” like “me@matcha_addict.com”, could that actually work? Or would that break the activity pub protocol with too many instances?
My potential argument against it starts with asking where the credentials are stored for authenticating this identity.
Currently the home instance stores the hashed password and performs authentication.
In a way, the identity “belongs to” the place that does authentication, which now happens to be the instance.
If identity is decoupled from an instance, that means authentication decouples from an instance.
If the identity “belongs to” the fediverse as a whole, then that means the fediverse as a whole has an authentication mechanism.
Unless we can come up with a distributed authentication mechanism, that means the fediverse as a whole has some authentication service, as in one, which means centralized.
This therefore breaks decentralization, unless the authentication is somehow handled in a distributed way. Maybe consensus or something on a hashed password? But if those hashed passwords are stored in a distributed manner, then you’d need a super long password to prevent rainbow table attacks on the passwords, given the hashed values would essentially be public information.
Maybe public keys are stored in a blockchain? I don’t know this is beyond me in the details.
But to summarize the problem at a data model level, an identity belongs to an instance, because the instance can authenticate them. If the identity now belongs to the whole fediverse, then the whole fediverse needs to be able to authenticate them, which if not handled correctly could lead to centralized authentication, centralized banning, censorship, reddit, etc.
Yeah sadly
