“worth anything” were the words I used. I didn’t say LLMs weren’t new, but right now they’re just untrustworthy and people keep using them as huge crutches so they don’t need to actually learn how to do the most basic elements of their jobs

It’s a tool. I can respect that to you the tool doesn’t seem helpful, but there are many people who are skilled at their jobs but also have to write a lot of boilerplate maybe for unit testing, maybe for writing REST endpoints, but there will be a task where the LLM outpaces you and you just refuse to use it to find out. There’s a for what and when to use it, and in those situations you unfortunately are already outpaced.

You’re certainly right it shouldn’t be used as a crutch for every type of work, but you’re wrong that not ever using it is more efficient than using it contextually.

You will be left behind. Laughing at juniors who over rely in it is putting your guard down. Juniors become seniors with time and experience.

Also what a wild example to use colonized native Americans with the US and all its failures in quality of life(the pretty propaganda does not make the senseless poverty go away), education, and human rights. “Look, AI is like a giant shit hole and you’re just not keeping up!”

Why’s that wild? I chose it for that exact reason.

AI means that you and I have to be more efficient or we will be left behind.

Being more productive doesn’t benefit you or me in any way, except not losing our jobs. Our bosses are just sucking more money out of us.

But AI has landed and is colonizing us. Plugging your ears and refusing to engage with it isn’t a historically successful response.

If you don’t want to use AI going forward, then we need to organize to ban it. We can’t individually just insist “I’m more productive without it!” because expertise is difficult for non experts doing the hiring to sus out, but productivity is easy to track via metric.

It’s a shit world out here, why do you think I’m disagreeing?

Fuck that, anything “AI” worth anything is just algorithms we already had that were rebranded to take advantage of stupid people.

While what you describe does happen (and are the worst of the worst examples of shitty unnecessary bullshit) LLMs are not algorithms we already had.

Things like ChatGPT/Copilot are novel tech. You might not like them, and they can hallucinate answers, but it is new.

My life is going just fine without its nonsense, thanks.

The theory is that you will be left behind, not that your life is missing anything.

Picture the native Americans before colonialism. Their lives were going just fine, but then a money addicted hyper “efficient” type of culture appeared and they weren’t able to raise armies and build weapons at the rate necessary to keep their way of life.

If you + LLM can do your job more efficiently than you alone then by supply/demand your value as an employee is going down by refusing to adapt, and your salary will reflect your comparatively lower output than your peers.

How would you suggest they do that. White light near equally activates our 3 cones because all spectrums of light are in it.

White light near equally activates all 12 shrimp cones because all spectrums of light are in it.

Which spectrum of color is left out of white light that wouldn’t light up a cone associated with it?

I thought zionism was a belief that Israel should exist.

No, Zionism is the belief that all of the land should belong exclusively to Jews and that assimilation of other cultures is impossible.

If you believe in a 2 state solution then you are anti zionist because you think Palestinians have a right to what Zionists consider exclusively Jewish land.

therefore I’ve always taken anyone who says,"I’m not antisemetic, I just think Israel shouldn’t exist is a closet antisemite at best.

If someone says Israel shouldn’t you’re right to hear that as suspect.

But that’s not anti zionism.

Like a smug dork saying,“I’m not Republican, I’m Libertarian!”

Not sure I get the point. If the Republican votes for Donald Trump and the Libertarian votes for Gary Johnson that seems like an important distinction.

Those aren’t semantics.

I can say that I really think the current Israeli gov’t should be exiled on St. Helena and not allowed to leave or communicate forever, but that doesn’t mean I’m anti-zionist.

That means you’re anti-zionist.

Do you believe the current borders should expand in Israel’s favor to take more land, or remain where they are so Palestine keeps the land it currently has by international treaty.

One answer is Zionist, the other is anti Zionist.

People who are anti-zionist seem to only have a selective and limited knowledge of a few thousand years of the history of the area.

With respect, you don’t even know what Zionism is and are basing your response from a dictionary entry.

Do you have thousands of years of history of knowledge?

If so, instead of the dictionary, how would Theodor Hertzl define Zionism?

It was Argentina

Why can Democrats only offer candy bars for dinner when we need fresh fruits, vegetables, and actual healthy foods?

Corporate interests in politics. You and me donating to our favored candidates is nothing compared to the big money and lobbyists mega corporations are throwing around.

Democrats can’t offer fresh fruit because the chocolate lobby is funding the chocolafe democrat in the fruit democrats district.

The Democrats either don’t know the right way to govern, or they know but they don’t care. Do either of those options sound like a party that anyone should vote for?

It’s not any one party’s fault. It’s a systemic issue. People who don’t actually represent voters are being given disproportionately amount of money to run campaigns because they represent businesses.

That being said I don’t know if we should be looking at party as a whole but also who the candidates are.

If we pushed more progressive candidates like AOC who do call out Israel and show up to primaries we can steer the party to a more reasonable direction while realizing the 2 party system is broken and needs fixing.

I dont see how disengaging entirely from electoralism helps.

I did not vote Democrat in 2024 because the Democrats are not entitled to my vote by pretending to be less awful than the other team. I did not vote Democrat anywhere on the ticket because I refuse to be complicit in genocide. That is the hard moral line I am taking. There is no excuse for genocide.

You got to keep your “moral line” but if it was at the cost of worse material conditions in Gaza and means Gazans got more bombs and their aid and rights watch groups defunded then I’m not sure I agree that was worth it.

Your suggestion that the material conditions of Gaza under Kamala would have been equally bad doesn’t feel very convincing.

And that’s not even mentioning the genocide in Ukraine. Biden was at least on the right side of that, Trump is certainly not.

We “caused it”? We “allowed Trump to win”?

I only brought that up because it seemed at that time you were trying to accuse me of not doing enough by asking how many protests I go to.

I’m saying that if you chose not to vote against fascism, it’s unfair to blame the people who did for not protesting now that it’s way more dangerous and they might be abducted, tortured and deported for doing so.

Had Kamala won there would be much less fear of protesting against her government.

You guys didn’t cause it per se, but you still can’t seem to agree that a fascist is worse than a neoliberal and I just don’t get what’s not obvious about that.

Show me 3 examples

No

There ya go. Then I will continue to insist that the abduction and systematic targeting of students and academics on grounds of “wokeness” wasn’t happening under Biden.

I don’t think that’s true. Half of his kids have disowned him. He has a trans child he says was “killed by wokeness” who hates his guts.

Democrats lost all on their own by pretending the economy was fine despite everyone clearly noticing it was not, and continuing to double down on supporting a deeply unpopular genocide. There are by far not enough ‘tankies’ in the US to sway an election like that. If we had that kind of power we’d be pushing our own party instead. 90 million people didn’t vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?

Yes they did, and they’re to blame for terrible messaging and gatekeeping democracy to force Kamala as the candidate without voter input.

The Democrats dropped a candy bar on the ground and Trump shit on the floor. They then asked what I wanted for dinner.

While I blame the democrats for dropping the candy on the ground, I blame voters for not voting against poo.

90 million people didn’t vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?

OP threw out tankie as a bad faith term and we just kept using it

I assume when we say ‘tankies’ we’re using the term as OP originally did, ie anyone who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don’t support genocide?

Those are the people I’m talking about, not terminally online people.

The genocide was already bad under Democrats. No, we didn’t forget that Genocide Joe sent Israel hundreds of shipments of weapons and supported them full-heartedly in their slaughter of the Palestinian people.

Yes. Joe was sending weapons to aid the genocide. That’s terrible and no excuse.

In light of comparing him to Trump though, Biden tried to set up a dock to distribute aid to Gazans when Israel tried to block it and continually threatened to stop sending these weapons if Israel bombed certain regions or were undertaking operations with crazy high civilian casualties.

Trump’s policy is “let them bomb” and deporting people who disagree.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Voting for Democrats would not have lead to fewer Gazan lives lost, because the Democrats don’t give a fuck about Gazan lives. Biden was already giving them all the weapons they needed, and Harris made no indication she was going to change course. Harris would have enabled the genocide same as Trump.

Okay, that’s a genuine argument if true.

I just am shocked you’d say that. I already demonstrated that Democrats care at least slightly more than Trump. Do you need a source for Biden providing aid and pressuring for Israel to deescalate while also funding them?

My god please take a step back and look at yourself. Examine your views and have an ounce of introspection.

I have, but I agree I should continue doing so going forward.

It is important to think hard on our values and that goes both ways.

So what protests are you going to? What are you doing to put pressure on the Dems?

So first of all, there’s now the unfortunate truth that because of voters staying home it is now more dangerous to protest than it needed to be and could come at great personal risk, especially to non citizens.

That’s not an excuse not to protest, but it is hypocritical of you guys to cause it to be much more risky to protest by allowing Trump to win and then try to blame others for not taking the risk.

I’m in Canada so Im not sure how to effectovely protest US politics from here.

I am boycotting American goods, and I have a recurring donation to the food bank to help bring aid to Gazans and other starving people.

In terms of Canadian politics, our government put an arms embargo on Israel so we aren’t supposed to be funding them but as of 3 days ago apparently that promise is broken so going forward that’s an open question.

If your point is that I could do more, you’re certainly right. I’ll think on that.

Leftists did not cost the Democrats the election, Democrats just suck. Harris got 68 million votes in 2024 to Biden’s 81 million.

Yeah, they threw the election seemingly on purpose because transitionary president Biden who we already voted in as the lesser of two evils just to stop Trump’s second term decided he would take up space and prevent new candidates from stepping forward.

It was already happening under Biden, you were just content to ignore it.

I’m not content to ignore it, it wasn’t happening.

Show me 3 examples of university students having their green card revoked for attending a protest under Bidens administration and I will apologize.

I’m a lib but I want to have a dialogue that’s less shit throwing and more genuine.

Just because someone is against Harris/the Democrats does not automatically mean they are in support of Trump/the Republicans.

Agreed.

This might come as a surprise to you, but we hate Trump and the GOP, too.

Not a surprise, totally know that and appreciate you guys for it.

We’re just not under any illusions that the Democrats are going to fix anything.

So neither am I, but I feel frustrated because we need to be protesting and making noise on this issue.

Its frustrating because our shared goal is to end the genocide, but you guys by staying home that election sabotaged this goal for us both and made the genocide worse than before.

If you focus on the material conditions of Gaza and think “which vote is going to lead to less Gazan lives lost” voting for Kamala seemed like a no brainer.

It’s only when you bring your own ego into it “well I will never support genocide” that comes across like you’re willing to sacrifice Gazan lives to feel self righteous about your values.

Had many of these tankies voted Kamala instead of staying home it would be so mucy easier to form a protest and get the pressure cooking on the dems

But because they stayed home (regardless of justification you might have) we’ve now lost the right to protest and many university students, scientists and academics are being disappeared into the night for speaking out.

This simply would not have happened under Kamala.

You’re not wrong about his smile but can’t agree he’s the “most” unsettling when Mr Beast exists.

Do people read this and fail to realize that the “calling everyone I disagree with is a Nazi” rhetoric is the exact same thing?

Like how Elon can do a full Nazi salute multiple times but then throw out some rhetoric about how “they call everyone Nazis” and everyone just buys it?

Yeah I can see how they’re similar.

Many have told me about “their god” and I take their word for it.

Resultantly I believe in all of “their gods”.

I’m following so far

And I drew a conclusion about that guy.

What do you mean “that guy”. I thought we just established these are multiple guys?

I think “god” is a piece of shit unworthy of praise and we should seek to destroy and erase it.

What do you mean “it”? Don’t you mean “them”?

I hate god and have no respect for god-fearing people and no tolerance for their “beliefs”

Why are you talking about a singular God here? It reads like you’re blaming Yahweh for Zeus’ sexual behaviour and you’re blaming Hanuman for the Great Flood.

These aren’t the same character. Each “God” claim needs to be evaluated separately.

For example why do you hate Persephene so much? Why is she a piece of shit. You claim to believe in her right Your reasons shouldn’t include examples from the Bible.

Which supernatural make-believe system (read: religion ) is tolerant of my supernatural make-believe system?

You might find company among the Satanic Temple or other Satanists.

You said “Buddhism” was ruled out but you didn’t actually clarify so until you present your reasoning I’d say Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and Jainism all lacking God’s are partially compatible.

I mean to be fair there’s not going to be a great answer because this isn’t a real question but a gotcha. And I say that as an atheist.

You obviously don’t actually believe in all the gods, your earlier language shows you haven’t thought enough about what that means and force them all into the same one God.

The Hittites believed in “all the gods” and absorbed every new God of neighbors they conquered. But they truly believed in these gods, not as a gotcha question but they really believed in the power of these entities.

Regardless of personal moral views on their behavior, outwardly taunting that being seems silly in light of genuine faith.

Appreciate that!

Yeah this is a new concept for me. If it genuinely works and these family units are happy that is amazing for polyamorous people, I never knew you could do that!

I wouldn’t want to project my baggage on them or try to discourage that relationship if they can find happiness and love that’s what life’s for.

I was just worried about potential harm if it didn’t work out cause I know that situation would hurt me.

If that harm isn’t there and I’m just straight ignorant I do get where the downvotes are coming from. Clearly I’m at least 20x more ignorant than I thought so…

Do you tell everyone everything about your lives? Do you not know anyone who prefers privacy?

If it’s taboo to talk about polyamory but it’s not taboo to talk about and dye your hair, then that is honestly a bit of a clue to me as to which one society considers more normal.

But to answer your question…

Yeah that open relationship couple I mentioned basically no one knows about. I’m one of 4 people in our wider friend group who they knew they could trust would be chill about it.

They’re definitely not comfortable letting everyone know.

Wow, something you can physically see is obvious compared to something you have to be told about! I’m shocked. Shocked, I say. To the core.

Why are you mocking me about it? I didn’t create the blue hair dye analogy. It clearly has flaws, which is part of why I responded to critique the analogy. It’s a bad comparison, I agree.

Yes, polyamory is less visible than blue hair. You’re right it would be harder to spot. That would be really important to take into account this visibility bias.

In fact I did take it into account, and despite that I felt at the time it’s still a lot more common to dye your hair.

The Kinsey Institute reported (going off memory here) that about 10% of Americans have been in poly relationships, and about 15-20% are interested, with about 5% actively in a poly relationship.

Yep someone posted a study showing similar numbers on a different comment. That seems to corroborate the same stat.

There are definitely way more than you think, since you’re basing it solely on people you know being interested in telling you about it.

Yep, about 20x more than I thought. Crazy!

I think you’re right. We have to make assumptions to answer OPs question on whether she should be uncomfortable in light of so much missing info.

More information on how the boys feel about this arrangement would be really helpful in alleviating some of my fears, but the post is based exclusively on information from the daughter’s POV so there’s really no choice but trying to fill in the blanks to try to put the answer together.

I think that OP is intelligent enough to look into her own situation and decide whether my assumptions are applicable or not and discard my comment if the boys are really aware and content about this arrangement.

1 out of 9 people (10.7%) have engaged in polyamory at some point during their life

Sorry, is that strictly consenting polyamorous relationships?

People who cheat on their partners aren’t being thrown in there are they?

If not, I should eat my hat, that’s a way larger number than I could have imagined.

Edit: yes it appears that they’re talking about consensual non monogamy. That’s really interesting it really is more normal than I thought.

It is unfortunate that this doesn’t shed light on the success of those relationships and only whether or not they happen.

I would still suspect they’re less healthy and more complex to navigate on average compared to monogamy but we have no way to make a claim on that one way or the other it seems.

… How would you possibly know they are poly aside from blatantly seeing them make out in front of you?

They could tell me? Lol. Do you have small talk with your acquaintances?

Of all my friends, family and acquaintances I have one non binary friend who is polyamorous but not currently in a poly relationship and one friend who is not poly but has an open relationship.

Compared to people I know who have dyed their hair blue, they do not seem as statistically frequent.

If you have a study on population size or something you could easily change my mind.

This is all built on the bias of personal anecdotes because I’m not very familiar with polyamory because I basically never hear of it being tried except online.

If it’s more common than I suggest please enlighten me.

I’d guess it’s under 0.5 percent of relationships just completely out of my ass to give you a target to disprove and shoot down if I’m that blatantly wrong.

Man I have never felt more out of touch than reading this thread.

Those poor boys have feelings, they really like this girl, and instead of being upfront with her feelings with them she’s going to take advantage of both of them and their inexperience to force them into such a damaging and toxic relationship.

It is so fucking hard being in love with your best friend at that age and not wanting to lose the friendship and blaming yourself for your own feelings for the fact that this unhealthy non monogamous relationship is destroying them on the inside but they still care about the person who’s taking advantage of them.

Do we just not care about what’s going to happen to these young men’s hearts when all the jealousy and resentment comes to roost?

Or do we not think about it?

Not believe it’ll happen because we insist this is actually a healthy dynamic?

There’s nothing wrong with being poly and going out into the poly community to find a relationship where consent is understood.

It’s another thing to convince your two closest friends to become poly as minors in maybe their first relationships.

Do they really understand and consent to a thruple, or do they just have feelings for their friend and are told this is how they can shoot their shot?

What is the thought process on being unable to see the “poor decision”? It seems so obvious. Am I just old and brainwashed by society? This seems wrong in this specific situation. This seems like it will end in pain and heartbreak and the daughter is being selfish and uncaring towards her friends feelings and needs to understand that.

If she’s poly that’s okay, but this doesn’t seem like the cleanest most consenting poly couple here. This seems like a bunch of kids being idiots about their first attempts at love who could use some gentle guidance on how to treat people in a relationship.

It’s definitely not as normal as dying your hair blue if were comparing percents of population. It’s a lot more rare.

While I fully support the right for consenting adults to express love however they want, I can’t help but feel this dynamic is incredibly unhealthy and I worry about the kids.

I seriously doubt it’s “normal” for these types of relationships to be successful. The power dynamic is just so off. Humans are jealous creatures.

Maybe that’s my biases, I don’t actually know, but if i saw successful polyamoric couples walking around anywhere close to the rate i see blue haired people that would go a long way to changing my mind.

Oh sorry. You’re right, you’re allowed to give up.

I have 100% confidence that you personally had negative experiences in the past trying to get stuff like this working. Like I fully believe you.

I’ve just done this before you know? I know what these tools are and how easy they are! I use ffmpeg.

Im also 100% sure that, if you had put that aside the attitude that it would be a time waste and you had just given it an honest try, me or a bunch of different people on this thread would have easily helped you get it working by now.

Maybe it’d take a couple comments back and forth, but weve already expensed that effort arguing. And I know for a fact it would’ve taken less effort than we’ve spent so far.

It’s okay for you to give up, but you gotta realize how it feels for us to hear you complain, for us to know with certainty we can help you, and not feel a little frustrated when you refuse the help while continuing to complain.

Everytime you keep popping up in the thread complaining about this non existent problem it just hurts cause it’s so easily solvable.

But you’re right, no matter how easy this is I can’t force you to try. So, cheers!