If the fediverse is to be adopted by the masses, the onboarding experience needs to change. A new user can’t be presented with a choice of instances as part of signing up or at least the process of making the choice needs to dumbed down a lot. I don’t know how or if this can be solved, I just know as someone involved in app development and UX that the current experience won’t work.

My mother would not know how to handle this paragraph: “Lemmy.world is one node in a network of hundreds of Lemmy instances. Before you sign up here, take a moment to explore all the instances at https://lemmyverse.net/. You may find an instance with a regional or topical emphasis that speaks to you! Don’t worry about being left out; Lemmy instances are interconnected so users from each instance can participate with communities on other instances.”

For mass adoption it needs to be so simple that even non-techie older people can get through it without feeling like they might be doing something wrong.

  • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    32·
    25 days ago

    That’s why I when I recommend the threadiverse (aka. lemmy or piefed or Mbin) to people I just send a link to an instance I think they’ll like. Instead of explaining the whole thing. If they join the instance with time federation will start to make sense to them and they might migrate later on.

    • Kichae@lemmy.caEnglish
      17·
      25 days ago

      This.

      There are rough edges to the actual onboarding experience, of course, but the joinlemmy and joinmastodon and joinwahtever websites really aren’t a part of it. They’re more of an ad for admins, demonstrating that there’s an active network of sites already using the product. The fact that not even the product develoeprs seem to understand this is a real issue, though.

      Honestly, we need to stop sending people to “Lemmy” or “Mastodon” or whatever. Those are website engines. It’s like sending someone to “WordPress” when you want them to read your blog.

      • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        10·
        25 days ago

        I look at it this way. If my grandparent asks me how to do “the email”, I’m not going to explain to them how they could choose protonmail or nextcloud or whatever. I’m just going to choose and send the one I think is easiest for them to set up.

  • cRazi_man@lemm.eeEnglish
    22·
    25 days ago

    I’m pretty techie and I’ve been here for months. I still don’t fully understand why it matters and how a different instance would have changed my experience. The fediverse is so fragmented, it would be dumb to stick to one instance. My app is always set to browse “all”. Everyone commenting seems to be from different instances. I’m certainly not going to start reading about different instances at signup when it presents the fact that you will be able to access all instances anyway. I picked randomly from one of the most popular choices. This whole process of a selection of an instance sounded good to software engineers, and sure this is how the technology fits together…but these are “back end” issues that I (and other normies) don’t care about at all. Users do not want to get into the weeds of how the back end works and it is certainly off putting.

    • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.netEnglish
      4·
      25 days ago

      Different instances that have a unique interest or theme will determine the type and feel of content in your local feed, and can have a tangible community as you recognize names from your instance. That’s the main difference.

      • concrete_baby@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        4·
        25 days ago

        Unique interests can be already be self-curated by subscribing to certain communities. All apps have the subscribed feed. There’s no need for communities of a certain type to be on one instance.

        Edit: typo

        • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.netEnglish
          4·
          25 days ago

          It’s not that the local tab replaces your home ‘subscriptions’ tab, it’s that it’s nice to have in addition to it.

          My instance, slrpnk.net, caters to solarpunk topics only, and we’re small enough that it has a tight community of regular posters whom I recognize. In my local tab I can see at a glance just the stuff posted to my community, with my other subscriptions not mixed in and cluttering it up. I also see in my local tab what’s being posted in communities I’m not subscribed to, but will often have comments from our members since we all collectively view our local tab. It’s like a sort’ve town square feel that my all and subscriptions tab don’t have.

          I like having access to both.

          • concrete_baby@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            3·
            25 days ago

            See, this falls apart when there’s another instance that focuses on solarpunk. When some communities on that instance become more popular and active than the communities in your local instance, you’d want to be subscribed to the solar punk communities on that new instance too. Now, your local feed is only showing you solarpunk communities hosted on slrpnk.net but not solarpunk communities on other instances. This distinction is not meaningful because where a community is hosted can be totally detached from the content. The users you know by handle can also be very active, if not more active, on other instances talking about solarpunk than slrpnk.net.

            • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.netEnglish
              2·
              25 days ago

              I don’t think the existence of a second solarpunk instance would negate my experience with the first instance. It would still apply, there would just be another place where that same phenomena is happening for a different group of people.

              That’s not to say that I couldn’t subscribe to their communities and get to know the regulars there too, but it would be more norrowed since I would only see the ones I specifically subscribe to, where as with my local tab I see the totality of what’s posted to my ‘home’.

              If you personally don’t care about that specific experience that a local tab can bring and think your curated subscriptions is just as good if not better, awesome, more power to you.

              But for me specifically, and possibly for others as well, it’s a noticeable difference and a welcome addition to our experience :)

        • Kichae@lemmy.caEnglish
          1·
          25 days ago

          But it’s better from many angles that they are. Discoverability alone. Consistency of instance level rules. Theme.

          It just makes sense on some level that sports communities would be on a sports-focused website, and such a website is where people whose primary interest is in discussing sports would have their accounts. From there, they can follow other topics they’re interested in, but their primary focus is still on, I don’t know, basketball or whatever.

          Same for cars. Some of the most active forums on the internet are car ownership forums. If you could access CivicForums from IoniqForums, then it would make sense to do so. Much more sense than finding people discussing Hondas on lemmy.world and Hyundais on sh.itjust.works.

          Just because you don’t give a shit where these discussions are taking place, doesn’t mean it makes sense for people to just shit them out anywhere.

      • cRazi_man@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        25 days ago

        Makes sense once there’s enough of a userbase…but currently there isn’t a huge amount of content of interest on Lemmy and sticking to a local instance just limits this even more. Currently I have to stick to “all” as even areas of subscription can run out of content with a quick scroll session.

  • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    16·
    25 days ago

    "Lemmy has 47k monthly active users

    Feel free if you have any questions"

    Edit: voyager link

  • .Donuts@lemmy.worldEnglish
    14·
    25 days ago

    This keeps coming back from time to time. imo we need an instance or method to sandbox newbies.

    My old comment:

    A custom feed that allows new members to see a variety of the best that Lemmy has to offer would be a good start. Then, when they are comfortable with the platform and its dynamics, they can customise it further, or swap the newbie feed for their own custom filter (which practically would come down to community subscriptions, I suppose?)

    Now instead of making this comment very long, I’ll put in an video game anology to make it a bit more digestible:

    What we need is a tutorial area that showcases all the different things that the Lemmy endgame has to offer. Creating memes, sharing news, the art of shitposting, being a lurker, actual discussions vs just scrolling to see the funnies: all these things are enjoyed by different types of people, and before they can reclass and enjoy the wild open world of Lemmy, it would be good for them to get comfortable with the controls and settings in a relative safe space.

  • Steve Dice@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    13·
    25 days ago

    lol not happening. Lemme just say it again: Lemmings are completely disconnected from reality. They can’t fathom that some people can’t or don’t want to spend time figuring that out. They will argue for days that “it’s not that hard” and people should just learn how to do it or stop being lazy or whatever before doing anything about it.

    Edit: I hadn’t even read the other comments in this thread before I typed this. There’s someone literally saying they want to gatekeep the fediverse from people without tech knowledge.

    • curry@programming.devEnglish
      4·
      25 days ago

      It’s the same with linux distros. One of the instances could get a critical mass of newbies but we will still have die-hards trying to gatekeep the entire fediverse.

  • TORFdot0@lemmy.worldEnglish
    13·
    25 days ago

    If people can’t understand what federation is then just send them directly to .world or lemm.ee or another big instance. If they have common sense then send them to join-lemmy and let them pick an instance. If someone is unable or unwilling to learn a very basic concept then they probably are not going to be a very good neighbor to have on the fediverse.

    I agree that the discoverability of communities needs improvement. I think that most instances should add starter pack like features with the most popular communities for people to choose to subscribe to when onboarding new users.

    In my opinion, finding the right and active communities to subscribe to is the biggest onboarding hurdle, not picking an instance. If picking an instance is a hurdle, that person wasn’t willing to try another site in the first place

  • Glitterkoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11·
    25 days ago

    I think they should stick to the “email provider” analogy. Whole paragraph should be something like:

    The only thing you need to start interacting with the Fediverse is an account with one of the many providers, just like with email! Providers are freely available across the globe: pick one that suits your location or interests best! You can start browsing the content of nearly the entire Fediverse from whatever provider you choose. Don’t worry, you can always create an account with a different provider later.

    You could add a sentence or two about where to find sensible defaults or link an article that explains the more subtle things.

    I think the emphasis on instances (and not naming them the more familiar providers) hinders adoption.

    • AnonomousWolf@lemm.eeEnglish
      7·
      25 days ago

      That’s a great analogy, but it’s too big a barrier for many, most give up before picking a instance, we should set good defaults and then the users can figure it out once they are used to the platform.

      • Glitterkoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        25 days ago

        Yes, very much in favor of sensible defaults for first timers. Most frontends/apps support multiple accounts anyway so changing/adding more later on really shouldn’t be a problem

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      2·
      25 days ago

      The difference is that the email provider you chose won’t make it so you can’t send an email to your friends because your providers don’t talk to one another.

      • Kichae@lemmy.caEnglish
        1·
        25 days ago

        No, that’s not true. The big email providers absolutely block smaller and personal hosts. There’s a whole system of features and options you need to install and support in order to get through the door, thanks to spammers.

      • Glitterkoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        25 days ago

        Well, it’s meant as an introductory paragraph. I think such a general paragraph should not go to those lengths since the vast majority won’t be facing that issue. Most large instances that you would recommend for first timers are federated well enough that at least the civilised part of Lemmy is very accessible. I think that with:

        • sensible defaults/suggestions
        • easy to understand intro
        • a help/link to a detailed article

        you cover enough for users who can’t be bothered, who want to be informed, and those who want to understand what’s going on behind the scenes.

  • Iapar@feddit.orgEnglish
    6·
    25 days ago

    I disagree that we should do that.

    Internet became a shit show the second everyone got a smartphone and the barrier to entry evaporated.

    Needing to put in some effort to participate is a good filter for low effort people and their low effort worldviews.

    • Tehdastehdas@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      24 days ago

      Not all places went eternal September:
      Some sites/apps had filters to hide low effort people.
      Some had strict rules that were enforced, so even if you were clueless coming in, you would upskill fast while using it.
      Some had a good onboarding course making upskilling a breeze.

  • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
    6·
    25 days ago

    Do we want ‘mass adoption’? and if so, why? and what would that look like, if we had it? how would we know that we had got it, and what good would the getting do us?

    • AnonomousWolf@lemm.eeEnglish
      6·
      25 days ago

      Whether or not we want mass adoption I can’t say, but what we don’t want is to have a filter that only tech savvy people get past.

      We want all kinds of people on Lemmy, not just tech savvy people that push through the bad UX

  • Richard@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    25 days ago

    It just isn’t possible, and we should want to dumb down the introduction too much. The Fediverse is not a centralised medium, and to participate in it, its users should understand that, analogous to how you would instruct people before using motor vehicles. Some things are just essential and need to be taught. Not teaching the stuff doesn’t make it disappear. If some people cannot get behind the idea, then either find novel, intuitive ways of conveying it, or just accept that they cannot be a part of the Fediverse.

    • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      9·
      25 days ago

      I’ve seen people using Voyager for a year and not even knowing what their instance is. They seem content, vote, post just like on Reddit.

      People can drive a car without knowing what type of engine it is. They turn the wheel, it turns.

      • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
        3·
        25 days ago

        I’m not sure your car analogy is a great one since most drivers are awful, don’t respect the vehicle nor the responsibility they carry by piloting one, and tens of thousands of people die in car accidents every year. lol

        Maybe we shouldn’t let any idiot drive a car…

        • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          25 days ago

          Also everyone wants different driving experiences, the driving experience varies widely from country to country and state/province to state/province, and everyone wants different features and capabilities in their cars.

          Cars are a great comparison, although there are also people who don’t drive for a wide variety of reasons…

  • ekZepp@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    25 days ago

    They should just add an automatic joining option based by location for the Lazy ass new users with the option to manually join any instances.

  • nutomic@lemmy.mlEnglish
    4·
    25 days ago

    You’re welcome to improve the text. That said the site is in large part aimed at instance admins and technical people. For normal users it’s better to link them directly to a specific instance.

  • Landless2029@lemmy.worldEnglish
    4·
    25 days ago

    What if instances could be tagged with their focus?

    Then during an app user creation they could click a few “topics” and narrow down the choices to a much shorter list including member counts?

  • RobotToaster@mander.xyzEnglish
    4·
    25 days ago

    If what instance you chose truly didn’t matter this wouldn’t be as big of an issue. Unfortunately defederation causes a tangled mess of netsplits.

  • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    3·
    25 days ago

    Your mother would ask you what the hell an “instance” was and then think that picking one meant she couldn’t look at posts from any others.