Actually, I’m surprised they weren’t using them long before. It’s basically AC with an extra valve. Thought they get priced like they’re some sort of new technology.
There was never really a need in ICE vehicles since they can primarily use waste heat from the engine.
Pretty sure they meant EVs
Pretty sure @jqubed@lemmy.world meant to explain why they weren’t a thing in cars in general
Yes that was my point.
I reckon they thought seat heating and steering wheel was enough, and it kinda is for the most part
Vapor injection is the new technology. It’s why older heat pumps were useless below 32f.
Vapor injection becomes an excuse to downsize the compressor and lowers the cost, it seems. You could easily go lower than 32 if you oversized the pump before EVI, but those were only in specific heatpumps.
I suspect the reason for that was that the pumps used in car ACs are not really very powerful. They were alright for cooling the car down, but for heating heat up in a cold environment you need a fair amount of throughput, they work if you have the throughput, but you need it to be there.
They work by pulling ambient heat out a large part of the outside and dumping it into the small inside. You need many times the contents of the interior to warm up if it’s a cold day outside. Thus you need a lot of air and if you want it to happen in a reasonable time frame you need quite a powerful little motor. The ones on houses are fine because they’re huge anyway.
It uses the same amount of energy to create cold as it does to create heat.
Well it’s about temperature differences, those are larger in winter I guess. On the other hand there is a lot more radiative heat load in summer…
They also need to be able to get the cold side colder than the outside air so once it gets too cold they don’t really work. There can also be some problems with condensation but when they do work they’re great.
Is this really an article saying heat pumps are more efficient than resistive heaters? Yes, that is why heat pumps exist.
The biggest issue is the battery itself. If it gets cold enough you can have difficulty even charging an EV outdoors. I would be a lot more concerned with whether or not my battery is well insulated and heated. Heat pumps are great and should be the default, but unless you’re going really far or have a very low range EV it’s not a huge issue.
Yes, resistive heat is expensive, but that’s only part of what makes heat pumps in cars more effective. They don’t just heat your cabin, they heat your battery so you maintain range while it’s cold out. Here’s an article with more details and some pretty infographics.
It defintely is a huge issue, considering resistive heaters use 3x as much energy. Most EVs have a “low range” and anything you can do increase it without adding more batteries and weight and cost, especially in winter, is a huge advantage.
The lowest range EV in the US is 114 miles. The average commute is 52 miles. Most EVs sold in the US have a range of 250 miles or more. So a resistive heater eating 10% of your range is way less of an issue than your battery not charging properly in cold weather. Again, heat pumps should be available, but they aren’t going to save you if cold weather kills your battery.
The average commute is 52 miles. Most EVs sold in the US have a range of 250 miles or more.
No one cares about “average commute” when buying an electric car and considering the offered range. They’re thinking about long trips.
So a resistive heater eating 10% of your range is way less of an issue than your battery not charging properly in cold weather.
Who said anything about batteries “not charging properly”? What does that even mean?
heat pumps should be available, but they aren’t going to save you if cold weather kills your battery.
We’re not talking about killing batteries, we’re talking about electric range. Heat pumps extend your electric range and 20 miles can absolutely be the difference between making it to the next charger or not.
If only plug-in hybrids existed…
Which have a whole bunch of issues of their own. Like increased mechanical complexity, and that you might use gas so seldom that it becomes significantly water by the time you do need it.
Most people aren’t road tripping in their electric vehicle every day. If you don’t understand how temperature affects battery chemistry, capacity, and charging I don’t understand how you can even be in this conversation.
Most people aren’t road tripping in their electric vehicle every day.
They can’t road trip ever if the vehicle doesn’t have sufficient range. I don’t understand how you can even be in this conversation when you don’t understand basic principles like this.
If you don’t understand how temperature affects battery chemistry, capacity, and charging
I understand how it affects all of these. It doesn’t cause any of it to “not charge properly”. EVs are used in the coldest places in the world with no major problems.
I’ve driven from Madison, WI to Chicago in an EV with ~100 mile range in cold weather. Wouldn’t be my first choice, but I was in a pinch at the time. It can work, but getting a reliable charger network is the biggest problem. Made three stops to chargers that were broken or inaccessible for various reasons.
That was a couple of years back, and I think it’d go a bit smoother now. The Chicagoland area has reasonably good charger network outlays (much better than Minneapolis, which is a joke). Still wouldn’t be my first choice, but it’s workable.
Not sure what your point is. I never said anything to the contrary.
Not sure how you are being downvoted. You’re absolutely right. Everyone I know that wants an EV wants more range.
I know the resistive heater in my Volt can’t compare to the heat put out by the ICE. Often in the winter we’ll have to run the ICE to keep the cabin warm enough. It does have heated seats and wheel, but my wife is the type to set the heat to max until it gets too hot rather than just picking a temp and hitting auto to let the car manage it.
If the heat pump can put out more heat for less energy, that would be a boon. That might be the second biggest issue (next to range) that has my wife vetoing an all-electric car. She gets the next vehicle, but I want the one after that to be a full EV.
Fwiw, I’ve never had a lack of heat from my cars heat pump. It even warms up faster than a gasoline engine would. Most importantly, I can turn it on remotely to get warm before I get in the car. I never had that with a gas engine
Yeah and a lot are moving to heat pumps if they don’t already use them.
https://www.recurrentauto.com/questions/which-electric-vehicles-have-heat-pumps
There’s a list of models that have them.
If you have two cars, one EV and one ICE is a great option. I do recommend whoever is more enthusiastic about EVs get the first one, though.
As someone in a rural state, cold weather range is one of my chief concerns. I work from home but on the weekends travel to far away backcountry areas to ski.
I’d like to get a full EV when my current lease expires(2.5 years) but the pool of cars that are affordable, have AWD, and 300 miles of range(aka 180-225 in winter) is quite limited.
In 2.5 years, the EV market will look very different. Just the last year has shifted a lot around with the used market (such as Hertz cycling out a bunch of Teslas and offloading them cheap).
Just leased an Ioniq 6 and been loving it. Depending on what you consider affordable, it checks your boxes! I leased mine during a major sale and with a trade in, though.
You’re probably a better candidate for a plug-in hybrid.
Yeah I’m coming to terms with that now lol. Debating between leasing with the hopes to get a full EV after another 3 years, or just buying a PHEV.
Just saying that the Prius Plug-in Hybrid seems to be an excellent PHEV.
Check out the 2023 Q8 e-tron. There’s usually good lease deals on them and they meet that list. Wait for them to come off lease and you can get them at a steal. I’d recommend the 2022 but those had a smaller battery pack and wouldn’t meet your range.
Good call, looks interesting. I’ll take a look
Ignore that guy, Kia Ev9 is better
Chevy Equinox? I guess it depends on what you call affordable and how long the $7500 federal tax credit survives
Not a bad option but still below 300 miles with the AWD.
