Asking as someone from the other side of the planet.
From the things I saw about the US election, the Dems were the side with plans for the economy - minimum wage adjustments, unions, taxing the rich, etc. The Republicans didn’t seem to have any concrete plans. At least, this is what I saw.
I don’t doubt Bernie Sanders though - he seems like a straight truth teller. But what am I missing?
The Democrats’ plans for the working class are tweaks. A little tax credit here, a little minimum wage bump there.
But the working class in America have been experiencing long term systemic structural changes that permanently disadvantage them, globalization being one of them.
Between shipping manufacturing jobs elsewhere, and allowing in immigrants who do menial work, people at the low end of the economy are pretty pinched for work. People will say “Americans don’t want to pick fruit” and there’s some truth to that. But there definitely are Americans who want to mow lawns for a living and they’re constantly undercut on price by guys from Mexico who sleep 10 to a room so they can send a few dollars back to family in the old country. I love and admire those guys, don’t get me wrong, but there’s no question that people at the low end of the economy feel pinched from both ends, and one side of that pinch is the commodification of unskilled labor due in part to an unbounded supply of immigrants.
Trump voters see his policy on tariffs and they don’t think “hm economists say this could lead to a drop in GDP.” They see a structural policy shift aimed at bringing manufacturing back to the US. However ill-conceived it might be doesn’t matter. It’s big, it’s bold. It is a fundamental reordering. Economists flap their hands and Trump voters say “good - run scared, you Wall Street pimps.”
If I sound like I’m defending Trump voters, I’m not. But I absolutely believe that the Democrats have to offer more than tweaks and handouts to address the working class.
America spends huge amounts of money to project power abroad. We’re the richest nation by far. Why isn’t that benefitting the working class? These are real questions. Trump has all the wrong answers, but Democrats don’t have any answers. And frankly they are a bunch of moneyed elites, and I don’t throw that term around much. Look at the personal net worth and residential addresses of top Democrats and you’ll see rich people. They have a lot to lose in Bernie’s revolution and they don’t believe in it.
Between shipping manufacturing jobs elsewhere, and allowing in immigrants who do menial work, people at the low end of the economy are pretty pinched for work.
Isn’t the unemployment rate close to record low? I mean, a lot of people work 2 and more full-time jobs to make ends meet, but that seems like a different issue.
They have different lists for different things. Real unemployment is closer to 30% than 3.
One particular thing I noticed, is on the one hand was the rhetoric that Biden was the saviour of the economy and the working class, the antithesis to corporate greed, and all problems are from COVID and leftovers from Trump; and on the other hand, that prices are rising, people are poorer, while corporations post record profits.
If I were an American, that dissonance would give me a little skepticism about all the pro-democratic rhetoric I’ve been hearing.
Again, not that that really answers the questions, but it does shift the impressions one gets.
Why isn’t that benefitting the working class? These are real questions. Trump has all the wrong answers
The existance of people like Trump and Musk are the answer.
They are part of the problem, but not the answer. An answer would be how we can ensure that everyone supporting their enterprises shares in their wild wealth and success. There could be many answers to that. And Democrats need to pick one and drive it.
It should be said that Musk is manufacturing cars in the US, which is more than a lot of manufactured goods companies can say.
What you’re missing is that all those plans you mentioned, while correct, were (a) just ‘plans’ with no follow-through to back them up and (b) too little, too late even if they were implemented.
- The “fight for $15” (minimum wage increase) has been going on for so long with zero [Federal] success that, due to inflation, it ought to be renamed “fight for $30” by now.
- The lip service given in supporting unions was belied by how Biden fucked over the railroad workers.
- Inequality (the gap between the working class and the 1%) is continuing to spiral out of control and the Democrats had very little to say about stopping it. It’s important to remember that “tax the rich” was only supported by the progressive subset of the Democratic Party.
- We need zoning reform coupled with switching from property tax to land-value tax, to stop enabling the hoarding of underdeveloped property by protecting it from market forces (i.e. real reforms to make housing affordable again).
- We also need things like vigorous enforcement of anti-trust law and consumer protection laws, so that the public feels (and is) less exploited by corporations.
Excellent write up, I donated to Feed the Children in your name.
The “fight for $15” (minimum wage increase) has been going on for so long with zero [Federal] success that, due to inflation, it ought to be renamed “fight for $30” by now.
And the side that won has been fighting the minimum wage hike for “so long”. Who’s the enemy of the working class again?
The lip service given in supporting unions was belied by how Biden fucked over the railroad workers.
This is a lie that has been repeated time and time again. He fast followed the end of the strike with helping the workers get exactly what they wanted. He aided their negotiations AND got our supply lines back on line.
Inequality (the gap between the working class and the 1%) is continuing to spiral out of control and the Democrats had very little to say about stopping it. It’s important to remember that “tax the rich” was only supported by the progressive subset of the Democratic Party.
Again, which party is it giving the mega wealthy tax breaks? Who is appointing billionaires to run the government? Who controlled the House and prevented tax reform from going through?
We need zoning reform coupled with switching from property tax to land-value tax, to stop enabling the hoarding of underdeveloped property by protecting it from market forces (i.e. real reforms to make housing affordable again).
That is state level reform. Obviously.
We also need things like vigorous enforcement of anti-trust law and consumer protection laws, so that the public feels (and is) less exploited by corporations.
No argument there, but which party is constantly eroding our current regulations that protect consumers and workers?
The lip service given in supporting unions was belied by how Biden fucked over the railroad workers.
This is a lie that has been repeated time and time again. He fast followed the end of the strike with helping the workers get exactly what they wanted. He aided their negotiations AND got our supply lines back on line.
Nope, I did my homework on that one before posting it. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute :
In September 2022, U.S. Senators Richard Burr and Roger Wicker introduced a bill that would have required labor unions to agree to the terms proposed by the Presidential Emergency Board, to prevent a strike. It was blocked by Senator Bernie Sanders, who noted that freight rail workers receive a “grand total of zero sick days” while railroad companies made significant profits. In the House of Representatives, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, “We’d rather see negotiations prevail so there’s no need for any actions from Congress.”
In late November, after some unions had rejected the agreement, Biden asked Congress to pass the agreement into law. On November 30, the House of Representatives passed the existing tentative agreement along with an amended version that would require railroad employers to ensure 7 days paid sick leave. On December 1, the Senate passed the tentative agreement with only 1 day of sick leave. President Joe Biden signed the legislation into law on December 2. The Biden administration’s intervention in the dispute was condemned by over 500 labor historians in an open letter to Joe Biden and Secretary of Labor Marty Walsh.
Biden may not have aggressively attacked and ruined the railroad workers the way Reagan did with the air traffic controllers, but he definitely forced them to take less than they would’ve gotten if they’d been allowed to strike.
I get what you are saying but it still isn’t the complete story. Yes he didn’t let them shut down a major pillar of our economy and at that time forced them to take an agreement that was basically everything they wanted except for off time. But his admin spent the months after getting those concessions from the railroads. The IBEW even thanked the admin for their work. He supported many other labor unions right to strike without interference.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
- Still less than half the sick days the workers originally demanded, and deserved.
- The damage to Biden’s reputation re: supporting the working class was already done.
Yep you’re wrong on 1. “The Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes Division of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters had asked railroads for seven days paid sick leave following the rejection of its contract earlier this month. Another union, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, rejected its contract in September in respect of other unions negotiating for additional benefits, though eventually voted to ratify”
Well, you failed your homework assignment, then.
Further down your own Wikipedia article
In February 2023, CSX announced a deal to provide four days of paid sick leave annually, plus the option of converting three personal days into additional paid sick time with two unions.
Citation from your own linked article
Which also clearly states that the original agreement that included 7 days was shot down by Republican senators, which is why the 1 sick day had to be the first iteration. And also includes details on how Biden’s administration continuing pressure on the railroad companies that led to 7 days paid sick leave for two unions 3 months later, and then ultimately yielded 7 sick days for the majority of railroad union workers by half a year later.
But yeah, keep intentionally misrepresenting recent history. It helped elect the guy who is so anti worker that he habitually stiffs his own workers of overtime, or refuses to pay them at all.
7 isn’t 15, which is what the workers were initially going to strike for (and deserved).
More to the point, the damage to Biden’s reputation re: supporting the working class was already done. If he really wanted to show the working class he had their backs – which, again, is THE thing that’s absolutely necessary to combat fascist populism – would’ve been to respond to the Republican obstruction by saying “fuck that, if you won’t give them what they deserve I’ll support the damn strike!”
But yeah, keep intentionally misrepresenting recent history. It helped elect the guy who is so anti worker that he habitually stiffs his own workers of overtime, or refuses to pay them at all.
What in the time travel bullshit is this? You do understand that being honest about Biden’s fuck-ups now can’t do any more damage – and moreover, is necessary if there’s any hope to do better next time – right? If you’re going to accuse me of saying this stuff previously (when it would’ve been damaging), you’d better fucking bring receipts. Check my comment history. I’ll wait.
And then you can fucking apologize!
7 isn’t 15, which is what the workers were initially going to strike for (and deserved).
Have you ever heard of negotiating? You don’t start at the price you’d be happy with. The Unions have stated they’re happy with the result, why aren’t you?
You do understand that being honest about Biden’s fuck-ups now can’t do any more damage
What fuck up? Biden averted a major breakdown in supply chain, AND got the workers what they wanted. That’s a win, despite the repeated attempts at framing it as a failure.
And no, I’m not going to spend a day digging through your history. If you’re repeating this gross misrepresentation of facts now, chances are high that you have before.
What fuck up? Biden averted a major breakdown in supply chain, AND got the workers what they wanted. That’s a win, despite the repeated attempts at framing it as a failure.
What part of “it, and shit like it, cost Harris the election” do you not understand? It doesn’t matter that the workers eventually got what they wanted, quietly and after the fact, when the impression voters got was that Biden – and by association, Harris – was perfectly happy to collude with the Republicans to suppress their right to strike.
And no, I’m not going to spend a day digging through your history. If you’re repeating this gross misrepresentation of facts now, chances are high that you have before.
You’re literally refusing to check your own facts and then making baseless accusations about me. Pure hypocrisy.
Uh huh. So you do your “homework” and call out that Biden forced the workers to take 1 day of sick leave instead of the 7 that they wanted (at that stage in the negotiations).
I present evidence that it was downgraded from 7 to 1 in the Senate because Republicans rejected 7.
I then present evidence that Biden’s administration leaned on the railroad companies until they in fact gave the majority of railworkers 7 sick days. With quotes on the Union heads attributing those gains to the Biden administration.
And then suddenly 7 days isn’t good enough to call that a “win” in your opinion.
And I’m the hypocrite.
Again, which party is it giving the mega wealthy tax breaks?
But that’s rather the point here, isn’t it? So much Democrat rhetoric and support comes across as, “they’re worse so you have to like us.” Not exactly inspiring to people whose livelihoods are struggling.
Democrats didn’t campaign on their economic plans. They dove deep into MURICAN PRIDE, fighting against dictators and drug cartels, and continuing the work of the Biden Administration. They played advertisements like THIS on TV in September. They campaigned in states that they lost in by trying to appeal to Republicans.
Less democrats total voted this year than 2020.
But yes, you’re right to think that Republicans are worse for the economy in every way.
And the rightwards pivot chasing the “regretful Trump voter” and that stellar Cheney endorsement.
Republicans voted GOP just like they always did. People who wanted anything resembling change stayed home. Unfortunately they’re going to get that change…
I voted Harris, but the Democrats need to abandon neo liberalism and embrace economic populism. People need affordable housing, healthcare, affordable healthy food, and a plan for the climate that doesn’t involve mass extinction.
That being said, these people won’t live long enough to see the worst of it. I hope that I don’t. I don’t have children, but I imagine that if you’re under 35 right now, you’re going to live long enough to see the water wars.
I voted Harris, but the Democrats need to abandon neo liberalism and embrace economic populism. People need affordable housing, healthcare, affordable healthy food, and a plan for the climate that doesn’t involve mass extinction.
She did do this. It didn’t resonate. Who knows what will get through in 4 years. Because who knows where this train is going. They need the house and congress to make real moves.
There won’t be another real election.
In their defense you would think just being against fascism might be enough. Turns out it isn’t.
That’s been the case since '16. Things need to change at the DNC because maga sure as shit aren’t going away.
I lived in a small town that literally didn’t believe COVID was real. During the pandemic, rarely anyone was masked up and then they got extra racist to a poor Chinese family and their restaurant.
These simple motherfuckers don’t see or understand fascism. They didn’t even see what they did to the restaurant as racist. These dumb hicks vote on gas prices and how much toilet paper cost.
“We are against the big bad fsscist guy! But we still like to do fascism abroad, do not worry guys!” It’s not a particularly powerful statement to the antifascist, nor to the fascists
The dems gaslit the public on inflation. They abandoned the working class decades ago. The economy only got better for the out to brunch professional managerial class liberals while the rest of us suffered.
Most importantly, the democrats haven’t run a competitive primary since 2008, they anointed Harris as their candidate without a single vote being cast for her and then they’re shocked pikachu face when she lost. The fact that democrat operatives make so much money despite being so utterly incompetent that one wonders if it’s malicious it blows the mind.
Well, Controlled Opposition is a lucrative field, friend. You just won’t find it on Indeed.
If you are asked where you differ from a whildly unpopular president in a time where all normal Americans are hurting bad, and you answer “nowhere”.
And your points on the economy are essentially, the economy is booming…
You disqualify yourself, as we saw.
People did not want more of the same or small incremental change. And apparently the worry some have about fascism taking over is not believed by many… politicians say a lot… but they won’t do that.
Time will tell.
I didn’t want to bother making another account to like this comment twice so I’m just writing this to say, ‘This’.
They are now saying, we got the mandate, we gotta do it. I even heard a rep senator say that they will go after companies employing illegals because then they will go home.
Get ready, because this will cripple agriculture and other sectors.
Also, the IRS knows who employs illegals… easily. They know how much revenues companies make per employee from massive datasets, they can easily point out the companies that over earn compared to their employee numbers in a specific sector. Same as they can easily determine someone’s income from their yacht, house or jet size.
In the Netherlands they for example audit hair salons if their purchase of hairspray (or other consumables) does not line up with their listed revenue… they know the revenue per bottle of hairspray… Or at least the range it should be in.
where you differ from a whildly unpopular president… and you answer “nowhere”.
I watched the beginning of the Trump-Harris debate. When Harris was asked why she and Biden kept Trump’s trade tariffs (after just saying how bad new ones would be), she gave no answer and went back to bashing Trump.
And your points on the economy are essentially, the economy is booming…
I felt a lot of disconnect between the “Biden is the greatest” and “America is suffering” rhetoric in the lead up to the election.
the worry some have about fascism taking over is not believed by many… politicians say a lot…
Not American here, but I still have much hope that the fate of America is in the hands of her people. My biggest fear at Trump’s election is if it inspires more of the nation to hate and anger - because the president is your leader in that way.
But you see, Trump won because a lot of people voted for him. If the American people can find a new love for the poor, for fairness between worker and manager, for people who look and act differently: then I have great hope for the nation’s recovery.
Think of this from his perspective: the Democrats put their faith in the idea that money wins elections, and if you can out-raise your opponent the votes will follow. Twice they conspired against Bernie in the primaries because of his platform: tackling wealth inequality, progressive tax reform, and overturning Citizens United v. FEC. They chose corporate interests over the working class because they valued money more than votes.
What is the incentive for the democratic party to ever chase votes rather than money?
If you get voted into power, lobbyists give you even more money.
You only get money if you do what the lobbyists (not the voters) want.
Plans are not actions. Sanders is talking about what the Democratic party has done (or rather what they’ve failed to do) not what they promised to do. Words are worthless without action.
They’ve taken the side of corporations over unions and dangle popular policies like Medicare for all until the general election where they abandon it.
But mostly it’s vibes. The Dems don’t say “it’s hard we’ll fix it” they say “it’s actually going really well we already fixed it”
Absolutely this.
This is going to sound awful coming from a person who voted for Kamala. But when Trump wanted something, he pushed forward and gave zero fucks who he burned. Trump wanted a wall, and then there’s a wall. Granted, it’s shitty, it’s expensive and an eyesore, and it does absolutely nothing and no Democrats voted for it (that I’m aware of). But to the stupids, they see it as a win.
Democrats fight for a policy, and then carve it over and over to appease corporations, billionaires, conservatives, and anybody who might feel threatened by it. And to those who could really benefit, they suffer. So yeah, I can see why people would shrug at giving a vote for Kamala.
Again, I voted for her. But in reality, I want a candidate who will go, “Listen motherfuckers. All kids in America will get fed. Suck my dick if you hate it. Every single kid will get a sandwich and if you speak again, will destroy you.”
LBJ was a monster. He sexually harassed and assaulted everyone. He killed so many people in Vietnam. He was pretty fucking racist. And I swear to shit we need more democrats who act like him in leadership (outside those aspects). He’d say slurs against people if it got them more civil rights. The Buck stopped there and he’d make shit happen. I swear, I’d kill for a democrat who could get republicans to vote for queer rights even if that requires them to call us every slur in the book. We need a great society. A country that can stand up for us working folks and for us minorities. An America of higher ideals forged by those attempting to live up to them.
We need that or an FDR, someone who can offer up a new deal, a fairer and kinder America paid for by the prosperity it creates. Instead we’re getting a whole lot of Andrew Johnson at best and Hindenburg at worst.
It’s hard to explain. A lot of it is about vibes and focus over the last several years.
- There’s a popular suspicion that, rather than fixing issues, Dems allowed them to persist so they could campaign on them during an election year.
- Dems’ platform in 2016 was: Hillary’s more competent. In 2020: Trump’s a menace. In 2024: Trump’s a menace. Meanwhile, people cared more about putting food on the table, not dying of the plague, and war crimes. Sure, welfare was part of Dems plans and platform, but it weren’t the core message.
- Related to #2, people felt unheard, ignored, and taken for granted. We’ve been losing faith in a 2-party system, where neither side has to be good, they just have to threaten that the other side is worse. Well, wehn people feel they have nothing to lose, they put a bull in the china shop and hope they wind up on top when the dust settles.
Bernie’s being a bit harsh in saying Dems didn’t try. Republicans blocked their efforts. But there’s also a feeling that they didn’t care all that much. At the end of the day, they’re career politicians, padding their pockets with corporate donations while demanding starving citizens vote for them because the other guy would be somewhat less palatable. And I guess Trump’s honesty about being apathetic and money-grubbing is more appealing than Dems’ feigned innocence and solidarity.
It’s not hard to explain. It’s not about vibes. The DNC is pro-corporate, which means they’re anti-worker. They push few policies that benefit the average person.
Take the housing plan, for example. Raise the limit on the tax break for first-time home owners. Is that good? Sure it’s better than nothing, but if a home that used to cost $200K now costs $800K, an extra $30K won’t make it affordable. But more money might help the banks a little bit. Or take the federal minimum wage. It should be $25, but it’s not, because the DNC just doesn’t care, and they never will.
It’s not just the US, it’s been happening for years in other countries like the UK as well.
Traditionally there has been one party that is for working people and another for capital and the owner class.
The right has been getting further and further into far right authoritarianism. That posed a problem for the Dems going back to the Clinton Presidency: do they stick with being the party of working people or do they try to have their cake and eat it by tacking to the center and assuming that the working class will continue to vote for them no matter what?
It largely worked for a time and gave Obama two terms but ever since then they have been susceptible to criticism that they’re out of touch, elitists, entitled, and that they look down their nose at working people whilst still assuming that they will get their vote, which opened the door to Republicans.
You can’t serve two masters for very long, you can’t be the party of working people while being run by upper middle class graduates. You can’t claim to care about the people with the least while cozying up to CEOs and megadonors. Sooner or later it all falls apart, as it did with Hillary Clinton’s run, where working people disliked her elitism and she didn’t have enough support from elsewhere to make up the shortfall. That should’ve been a warning. Instead they doubled down.
The problem in the US is that there are only two viable parties. The Dems won’t go back to being the party of working people because they wouldn’t know how to do that even if they wanted to. What happens when the Trump Presidency turns out to be a disaster?
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Identity politics, gun control, immigration, lagging economic recovery for labor, inflation and a distinct lack of ability to formulate a simple message. Sank Dems with the working class.
Policies are nice but most Americans don’t have a clue and don’t research anything.
Kamala spouted a bunch of policies and no message of hope. Trump had a bunch of headline grabbing antics and one liners. Guess which one wins with most Americans.
Identity politics? That’s a republican issue. They bring it up. The most democrats do is block, but all the punches are thrown by the right in campaigns. I didn’t even hear a gun control proposal this round.
Did you happen to visit Kamala’s website during the election. She listed who she represented…. Black males, Latino Males, no mention of working class white peoples.
That is identity politics. If you wonder why white women voted for Trump, they did it for their sons who aren’t mentioned at all.
Both Kamala and Biden championed another assault weapons ban.
How is this true?
No, it’s not true. The liberals never had the working class’ backs.
Liberalism fetishizes capitalism, remember?
I don’t doubt Bernie Sanders though - he seems like a straight truth teller.
He’s not consciously lying - Bernie, like all liberals, actually believes you can (somehow) represent both the interests of the working class while also representing the interests of the capitalist class that is parasitizing off their labor. As any leftist will tell you, this is pure delusion.
I’m very intrigued by your definition of Liberalism. It doesn’t correlate with liberalism across the world.
It doesn’t correlate with liberalism across the world.
Really? Find me an anti-capitalist liberal. that should be very easy if this…
It doesn’t correlate with liberalism across the world.
…was the truth.
I’m an anti-capitalist liberal.
No, Clyde. You’re not.
You are just politically incoherent, like people who call themselves “fiscally conservative and economically progressive” (or whatever claptrap so-called “centrists” tell themselves).
Liberalism fetishizes capitalism. If you’re anti-capitalist, you have abandoned liberalism.
This is not complicated.
Next you’ll be telling me you’re an anarcho-fascist.
u mad bro?
This makes you less of a capitalist bootlicker… how, exactly?
I don’t have to prove myself to you because there’s nothing to prove.
It’s a pissing contest, and I refuse to get piss on me.
But if that’s your thing, I won’t kink shame.
Of course you didn’t provide your own. That’s typical, sadly enough. We all know there are varying definitions, and if you’re going to undercut someone else’s, which may be a reasonable thing to do, why not bring yours to the table? … But only if you care to continue the conversation.
I think of Sanders as like a well-meaning version of Trump. He tells people simple, good-sounding things they want to hear. I trust that he truly cares about the working class, but his ideas are probably too big and vague for there to be a path to actually implement them in any Congress of this era. He’s aware of his recent popularity and maybe a little bitter that he hasn’t gotten much out of it. He’s only a Democrat himself to the extent he can gain more from calling himself that than an independent, so with little to lose at this point in his career he’s lashing out while he can win points kicking the Democrats.
Simple, good-sounding things they want to hear is what wins elections these days.
Sadly, it only works if you’re selling hate and fear.
I think what Bernie is saying is that for decades Dems have paid lip service to working class concerns while not actually doing much. In reality Dems have been much more beholden to corporate interests.
By the time these plans came out, too many working class folk were already disenfranchised. They saw a party that was vocal about social issues that frankly were not high on the list of priorities for most of them. They were more concerned that inflation was out of control and they could not afford basic expenses. Sure Trump was racist but at least prices were lower when he was in office, or so they would conclude. If he could bring prices down, they would go with him.
Basically Dems were just out of touch with the most important part of their base until it was too late.
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