I’m a straight man and I’m comfortable in my gender and sexual identity etc I just don’t feel the need to do anything stereotypically “masculine”. Maybe it’s just because I never felt like labels or categories define you or limit you. I just do me and what I enjoy and don’t worry too much about societal expectations.

But I read on here a lot of people who do seem to care about this stuff. Saying things like “the man always wants to be the provider”. Talking about what it means to be a man in the 21st century, and how masculinity has changed.

I’m not denying these people’s experiences, just curious about the difference- why you do feel it’s important to asset a masculine role or identity? Or why not? What even is “masculinity”?

  • jared@mander.xyz
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    1 month ago

    I don’t care about any of the nonsense, it just a jumble of insecurities packed together with a label.

  • Alteon@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    For starters, I don’t think anybody has gone out of their way to seek out what “masculinity” is. The issue is that social media platforms such as X, and Tiktok have a pervasive amount of social media content and influencers that are pushing the idea of what it means to be a man in this changing world. It just so happens that this content seems to align with a Christian patriarchy. The content is subtle, but pushed in many different ways. For example, look how prevalent the idea of the trad wife is becoming, and the social media influencers that are pushing what’s commonly known as “cottage-core” lifestyles. They are trying to develop and push the ideals that are common with these Christian lifestyles, and I think that people buy into it just due to the amount of content that they are exposed to. Essentially, our younger generation is being brainwashed.

    It’s understandable to say that you don’t understand it or get why people care, but don’t you remember how uncertain being 16-20 was? These people are being fed the wrong ideas when they are at their most vulnerable and are latching onto anything that makes sense… unfortunately, there isn’t really content that argues the opposite, at least not that I’m aware of.

  • fjord_monkey
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    1 month ago

    I have typically male interests like fishing, building stuff and throwing knives, but I also enjoy growing plants and making fancy cakes. I like what I like and I genuinely don’t give a shit if I’m supposed to.

    It’s genuinely not a big thing in Scandinavian countries to have more weakly defined gender roles. Plenty of women in construction and plenty of male primary school teachers etc.

  • ArbiterXero@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    I think that most of these traits are things where you say you yourself

    “what kind of man do I want to be?”

    And then the subsequent question

    “What do I need to do to be that”

    The first question is where masculinity struggles today. Many options that used to exist are no longer available for both good and bad reasons and we need a more nuanced collection of archetypes to allow for more modern men.

    How do you define YOUR masculinity?

    personally, I define mine by being emotionally stable but caring and respectful. I want to be emotionally intelligent. I also define it with tools because I like to build things with my hands. I also define it with sport and competitiveness.

    More than 2/3 of that is fairly classic guy, and while that DOES factor into my choices, it isn’t a primary reason for them. I loved Lego, now I love my tools and workbench. It’s just an extension of my toys. I loved competitive sport and that hasn’t changed.

    …… but being emotionally available and emotionally intelligent aren’t “masculine” by classic definition and we need to change that.

    You still pick activities and hobbies and skills by how they make you feel, but also by how they shape “who I want to be”

    And in the end, that’s really the same idea.

    I want to be someone dependable that can fix things. Who do you want to be? What things do you do to try and get closer to achieving the goal of being THAT person? Maybe they are classic guy things, maybe not, but you still choose things based on how they shape who you want to be.

  • iii@mander.xyz
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    1 month ago

    Saying things like “the man always wants to be the provider”. Talking about what it means to be a man in the 21st century, and how masculinity has changed.

    That’s how they want to be, but it creates friction in current society. “Just be yourself” is looked down on, in their case. So they have to mask, get frustrated, …

    Your way of living is the more tolerated form currently. Hence you’re more comfortable in life, and feel less friction.

  • splinterA
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    1 month ago

    Men and women are predisposed towards different things. It doesn’t mean those things are exclusively for men or women, but overall men and women tend to have different interests. As the old adage goes, men care more about things, women care more about people.

    So when a man is interested in things that women generally go for, those can be seen as feminine traits, and vice-versa.

  • SJ0
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    1 month ago

    When I was young, I didn’t want to get pidgeon-holed into any given role just because of my gender, but as I got older, I found that I sort of naturally gravitated towards that role anyway.

    I’m stronger, I’m less neurotic, I’m more emotionally stable, I don’t end up incapable of leaving the couch once a month, and frankly I’m less necessary on an hour to hour basis raising an infant or even a toddler. I’m more interested in things which works well for my line of work. Meanwhile, my wife is weaker, more neurotic, has a much more chaotic emotional world, gets periods, is a great mother and caregiver, and she’s more interested in people so she helps build the local community in a way I simply wouldn’t.

    We are a society that has fought like hell to unlearn millions of years of evolution because we’re arrogant and stupid. What we keep on learning is that just because they existed before us doesn’t make them wrong about things, and it doesn’t make us right.

    I see people going “Oh, evolution doesn’t really apply to humans” who apparently don’t realize we’re facing a mass depopulation event where a good chunk of the human race will not procreate. For many people, it’s already too late, they will never have a chance to raise a family. In South Korea, they’re on track to have less than 10 great grandchildren for every 100 Koreans alive today, but they’re just one example.

    Instead of fighting who we naturally are to prove how smart we are, we should embrace authenticity and that does mean accepting that we’ve been evolving for about 250,000 years to exist in a certain way that includes a man supporting the mother of his children and his children as a major investment into the future. Prior to 250,000 years ago homonids had small enough brains that the men could just knock up as many woman as they could and those kids would likely survive helping his genetics to be passed on. After that, the overwhelming cost of childbirth meant that a high value male (in an evolutionary sense) would stick around and help the mother and child in the ways he could such as getting food or protecting against predators. Even later, work was often dangerous, so it made more sense for the men to be doing that sort of dangerous out of the home work, and women would engage more in maintaining the home and helping the family (though that’s oversimplifying somewhat), but most importantly helping to maintain a community. With so many women in the workforce, people everywhere are feeling a lack of community and they don’t understand why. Part of it may be the atomization of postmodern civilization, but I bet if we were more like our ancestors of 250,000 years ago we’d quickly discover we find ways to make communities just like they began to do 250,000 years ago.

    That doesn’t mean you become inauthentic chasing someone else’s dream of masculinity – one of the easiest ways to get manipulated is to chase a definition of masculinity that isn’t innate to you – rather, it means you just are what you are, and it ought to mostly come naturally.