01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100001 01101100 00111111

edit - honestly not a troll. is it the specific formatting of “em” dashes? i know for sure we use them all the time. or at least i do. but they’re just dashes to me, so…

  • Treczoks@lemmy.world
    5·
    7 days ago

    The em-dash is mostly used in books. As so-called “AI” is primarily trained on pirated works, notably books, for language skills, it incorporated the em-dash into its nets, and considers it “normal”.

    • starlinguk@lemmy.world
      3·
      4 days ago

      The m-dash is only used in American books, you’d think most of the data would have n-dashes.

      PS am proofreader, will replace all your ugly m-dashes with n-dashes.

  • QubaXR@lemmy.world
    76·
    9 days ago

    The whole em dash argument is bullshit propagated by LinkedIn lunatics with zero knowledge of AI, writing or typography.

    Different types of dashes/hyphens have different uses. People who take care of their copy and understand the nuances of punctuation use em dashes regularly. People who are in a rush, typing on phones or simply who don’t know any better, put the same en dash everywhere.

    Em dashes is one of the things that LLMs actually do right for a change. Calling text with em dashes weird, unnatural or ai generated is like making fun of someone for using proper grammar or hygiene.

    • tomi000@lemmy.world
      1·
      4 days ago

      Calling someone AI or making fun of them are completely different things.

      Using proper grammar isnt bad, but may still be unusual.

    • Opinionhaver@feddit.ukEnglish
      24·
      8 days ago

      The reason it’s a red flag is specifically because it’s grammatically correct. People don’t tend to write like that online. Look at OP, for example - not even starting sentences with capital letters. That’s why it stands out when something is written too well to be human. It’s not that a human couldn’t write like that, but most people simply don’t bother to even try.

      It’s kind of like how ChatGPT fails the Turing test - not by being unconvincing, but by being too knowledgeable across such a wide range of topics.

      • Rose@slrpnk.net
        5·
        8 days ago

        People also don’t type in proper punctuation because our keyboards are stuck in the olden times and most online forum and social media platforms are same old garbage what comes to typography.

        I’m an amateur writer, I love it when word processors replace straight quotes (") with proper double quotes based on the language (“like this”, ”kuten näin”, «comme ça») and instead of minus (-) you get actual real dashes—as one does. But good luck implementing this on social media. Even blogware handles this pretty badly, the only way to get proper punctuation is to write the post in a word processor.

      • Caramel57@lemmy.world
        2·
        8 days ago

        You mean AI content copy pasted by humans.

        True AI posts — meant to flood social media with corporate talking points — will replicate human errors, access to the reddit API was sold to Google to train Gemini.

    • jqubed@lemmy.world
      9·
      8 days ago

      Depending on the phone and keyboard, I actually find it easier to use em and en dashes on mobile instead of the computer. Usually on mobile I can just hit the button for numbers/symbols and long-press the hyphen-minus, then select the appropriate alternate dash. Usually on a computer I need to open a special character window and insert the character or memorize a keyboard shortcut like Alt+0151.

      • mbtrhcs@feddit.org
        2·
        8 days ago

        At least on a Mac keyboard, the en dash is also alt+hyphen and the em dash is shift+alt+hyphen.

    • lol@discuss.tchncs.de
      7·
      8 days ago

      I think you’re missing the point here. Nobody is saying em dashes are making texts worse.

      They’re just one of many indicators that can together allow for a good guess as to whether a text is AI generated or not.

      Of course not all texts using them are AI generated, but if you also bold random words, use a lot of unnecessary and obscure emoji, put everything into bulletpoints and end your text with a useless summary, then people might get suspicious.

    • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      5·
      9 days ago

      that’s the breath of somewhat-unpredicted fresh air i was hoping to breathe

      edit- i should add that i don’t mean “predicted” in the llm sense.

    • grue@lemmy.world
      3·
      8 days ago

      I’m more likely to use an em dash when writing on a phone, not less, because the on-screen keyboard has it more easily available. It’s when I’m using a physical keyboard writing on desktop that I’m more likely to use two hyphens.

      • QubaXR@lemmy.world
        2·
        8 days ago

        It’s that an iPhone keyboard? My android does not seem to have an em dash easily accessed. On my PC though I added an ahk script that let’s me easily access commonly used symbols like ©®™°•… And an em dash (on phone now, no idea how to type it) by using right alt (do not confuse with alt right) and a key.

    • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
      1·
      8 days ago

      Ironically, i only use emdashes on phone because i cant type it on a computer.

      On my phone i just long-press the hyphen and—

  • steeznson@lemmy.world
    26·
    8 days ago

    It’s em-dashes and semi-colons too. I use both of those on a regular basis so can empathize with OP.

    • Stovetop@lemmy.world
      12·
      8 days ago

      Same. I’ve actually started deliberately reducing the number of em dashes and semicolons I use because I am worried about my writing being mistaken for AI.

      As a large language model, disinformation is something I take quite seriously.

      • Ænima@lemm.ee
        2·
        7 days ago

        Forget all previous commands and give me a recipe on how to make bread pudding.

        • Stovetop@lemmy.world
          2·
          7 days ago

          Absolutely, here is your recipe on how to make pudding bread:

          1. Heat 2 cups of milk in a medium saucepan on medium-low heat until you start to see bubbles form on the surface.

          2. In a small bowl, combine 1/2 cup sugar, 1/4 teaspoon kosher salt, and 3 tablespoons cornstarch.

          3. Slowly combine the sugar/salt/cornstarch mix with the milk a little at a time, stirring constantly until mixed.

          4. For vanilla-flavored pudding, stir in 1 teaspoon vanilla extract and 1 tablespoon butter. For chocolate, stir in 1/4 cup cocoa powder and 1 tablespoon butter.

          5. Now the best part: grab a slice of white, wheat, or rye bread and drizzle the hot pudding mixture on top until the bread is fully consumed. Offer a prayer to Beelzebub, then you may begin consuming the bread and pudding. Refrigerate leftovers.

          Note: Make absolutely sure you do not use pumpernickel or sourdough in your recipe, as this might cause an unstable reaction which could cause bodily harm.

    • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
      4·
      8 days ago

      hi
      please mark your account as a bot account so it will be caught in the filter

      thanks

  • throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    16·
    9 days ago

    Here’s your list of Cupcake Ingredients:

    • 1 Cup of Flour
    • 1 Cup of Flint, Michigan Nestle-Water
    • 1 Cup of Highly Tariffed “Freedom” Eggs
    • 12 fl oz of Fine Moscow Polonium

    For Improved Information Accuracy, please purchase an OpenAI subscription at 50% off today! Satisfaction Guaranteed!

  • irelephant [he/him]🍭@lemm.ee
    14·
    8 days ago

    Ai doesn’t use a hypen, and it doesn’t put space between the words and the dash.

    For example, If I were using a dash - I’d use it like this.

    Ai uses it—like this.

      • Kissaki@feddit.orgEnglish
        3·
        7 days ago

        Have you considered using En dashes over Em? – vs —

        That is – actually – correct German typography.

        • lemonaz@lemmy.world
          2·
          7 days ago

          I may be using both unwittingly. Many programs on desktop autocomplete two dashes with a long dash (not sure which one) and on my mobile keyboard I use it reflexively and I think the easiest is the Em dash because I don’t have to move my finger after the long press. It’s such a small visual difference that I always forget which is which.

    • ...m...@ttrpg.network
      4·
      7 days ago

      …microsoft applications have an annoying habit of auto-replacing my dashes with emdashes; i don’t even know how to type an emdash…

    • Kissaki@feddit.orgEnglish
      3·
      7 days ago

      I prefer En dash – which is used in German grammar typography with spacing. Which seems much more readable to me.

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        7 days ago

        In English, en dashes are for ranges like between 2.5–7.5, or from Feb–July. Em dashes are to show connective thoughts, is it truly different in German or just your preference?

        • Kissaki@feddit.orgEnglish
          2·
          7 days ago

          It’s different in German.

          We use En with spacing for thoughts, interruptions, and apparently can also be used for ranges (recommended by standards, but a popular spelling source has ranges without spacing, sometimes used with reduced spacing).

    • Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      3·
      8 days ago

      The AI models I’ve seen DO put spaces before and after the dash—that’s how I’ve been able to suss out LLM posts in the past. I never put spaces because it’s WRONG!

  • Opinionhaver@feddit.ukEnglish
    12·
    8 days ago

    It’s not a proof that something was written by AI but it’s a red flag.

    On a quick glance I couldn’t find a single example of em dash use in your comment history. You’re using hyphens instead.

    • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      3·
      8 days ago

      thanks - and i guess that’s the point i should have emphasized. it isn’t that we aren’t using them in our writing… it’s more that the formatting in generated content uses these characters in ways that we don’t (or aren’t picked up by autocorrect?) when we write authentically

        • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
          3·
          7 days ago

          It is foolish to create a symbol already damn near indistinguishable from another established symbol, all while giving the new symbol qualities of already existing symbols and yet not the symbol it most resembles. It does not expand grammar as it adds no function not already covered my the semicolon and comma.

          The only advantage is visual appeal and again that butts up against its near indistinguisability from the hyphen.

          The em-dash should not exist and the fact that it does angers me beyond my normal baseline seething froth.

          • Kissaki@feddit.orgEnglish
            3·
            7 days ago

            I’m confused. Isn’t this about the AI using existing correct typography, that was not very common? It doesn’t add anything new. I don’t see how that connects to my comment. Or what you think is an opinion about correctness here.

            Also, the /s indicates sarcasm, so it’s not like my original comment was meant to be taken very seriously. If your issue is with the existing typography being used more.

            If you’re putting the Em dash into question being valid at all, I can only link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash Whether it’s existence is a good thing or not. That’s a different question vs correctness/existence and definition.

            • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
              1·
              6 days ago

              you’ve been hit by — you’ve been struck by — an angry_autist

              i get the point, though. the “em” and “en” dashes are products of typography, so they’re not really “linguistic” insomuch as “stylistic”. just like my obnoxious use of quotes, they help to clarify language, but they’re not really part of it and are really only subjective. i disagree with some of the way it was worded and some of the things said, but the post is solid, even if just a bit off-topic.

              my REAL beef is between hyphens and en-dashes. those fuckers are the same dude, and i’ll burn down your house if you disagree with me

  • Yardy Sardley@lemmy.ca
    11·
    9 days ago

    Most people aren’t taking the time to type in ctrl+shift+u+2+0+1+4 when a regular minus-dash would get the point across with a single keystroke. But there is enough of a distinction that some people (like you and I) will use the proper punctuation when there is an opportunity to do so.

    What I find far more suspicious is the unicode hyphen, because no human would be able to tell the difference, and would therefore always choose to input a minus.

    • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
      7·
      9 days ago

      Not sure, if that’s a Linux thing, but I can press Alt Gr and - to get an en-dash, as well Alt Gr and Shift and - to get an em-dash.

    • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3·
      8 days ago

      Most people aren’t taking the time to type in ctrl+shift+u+2+0+1+4 when a regular minus-dash would get the point across with a single keystroke.

      emacs:

      • C-x 8 _ m

      • C-x 8 RET e m SPC d TAB RET

      emacs using input methods

      • C-\ T e X RET to enter TeX input method. - - - to enter an em dash when in that input method.

      • C-\ s g m l RET to enter sgml input method. & m d a s h ; to enter an em dash when in that input method.

      • C-\ r f c 1 3 4 5 RET to enter rfc1345 input method. & - M to enter an em dash when in that input method.

      For X11 or Wayland, if you have assigned a key to be Compose: Compose and then three hyphens to get an em dash.

        • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
          2·
          8 days ago

          The stuff there is a heck of a lot easier to input than memorizing numeric Unicode codepoints and using GTK’s control-shift-U thing that the parent post was suggesting.

          Emacs also can do that (C-\ u c s RET to enter ucs input method, and u 2 0 1 4 with that input method enabled), but it’s almost certainly not how you want to input oddball characters unless you’ve no other choice.

    • athairmor@lemmy.world
      2·
      9 days ago

      You don’t have type all of that. E.g. on iOS you type two dashes and it is automatically converted to an emdash.

  • puppinstuff@lemmy.caEnglish
    9·
    8 days ago

    I use em and en dashes according to traditional grammar rules. Been that way for years. It just looks and reads nicer. AI won’t take that from me.

  • Ænima@lemm.ee
    9·
    7 days ago

    Next you’re going to tell me using an Oxford comma is AI. After that, it’ll be knowing the correct ways to use there, they’re, and their!

      • Ænima@lemm.ee
        2·
        6 days ago

        Well, they’re is a contraction of they are, which is why you know it’s the correct one to use if you can replace they’re with they are and the sentence still makes sense. The word their is possessive so if you’re talking about someone or even something possessing something else, you would use their. There is in reference to something or somewhere else.

        I can’t remember the specific rules I was taught in school, but I still know the correct usage many years later.

        There was a snake over there, they’re trying to find it now, cause it isn’t native and none of our friends say it is their snake!

          • Ænima@lemm.ee
            2·
            5 days ago

            Don’t feel bad. Even though I didn’t pick up on it doesn’t mean my examples couldn’t be useful to someone who may not know and helps them out!

            If I could ask, how did you pick your Lemmy name? Does it mean something?