If the system is working, what’s the big deal? Is not like this needs to be running on windows 11 with the ability to send out tweets and Instagram posts. Relying on floppies may seem archaic but it’s better than spending $10B and years of ‘project delays’ just to wind up with a functionally similar system using modern hardware.
As long as they can still get floppies to replace them as they go bad I don’t see a problem. They’re still being made for things like old geological and industrial equipment and will continue being made for a while.
There’ll probably be no more diskette makers in the future, so the train operator should stop using diskettes. I did a quick googling.
In January 2024, Japan announced it will no longer require floppy-disk copies of government submissions.
I did a quick search on amazon.com too. You can buy diskettes there.
I’m assuming the folks doing the upgrade know what they’re doing. Train operation is key, so to be sure, they may need to slowly move away from diskettes and slowly integrate ssds or whatever the replacement will be.
Turns out that in 1998, SFMTA had the latest cutting edge technology when they installed their automatic train control system.
"We were the first agency in the U.S. to adopt this particular technology but it was from an era that computers didn’t have a hard drive
Aaaand that’s when I stopped reading. Please, we had hard-drives in average office systems for more than a decade at that point.
I’m trying to justify that in my head, but the only idea that I have is that “old” hard drives couldn’t handle the vibrations of a train. But flash existed even back then, and floppies aren’t exactly known for their high capacity.
Flash (NOVRAM or EEPROM as it was called at the time) did exit, but it was expensive, tiny capacity, and had astonishingly few write operations (compared to today) before it couldn’t be written to again. Some of the early stuff could be written (reprogrammed) as few as 1000 times and only had capacity of about 20KB.
Yeah they’re over a decade off from computers that didn’t come equipped with one by default.
An interesting thought, that the author of that article is younger than me, possibly like 5+ years younger. And I’m only a bit under 28. Scary how it ticks.
Maybe they meant home computers, and that’s all most of their audience will picture in their heads, anyway. But yeah, not a very good computer historian.
Home computers had hard drives by then. This was after Win95 was out.
In 1990 I bought my first (very used PC) which had a 20MB hard drive in it. I In 1996 I upgraded my home computer to the largest consumer hard drive available 1.6GB.
For reference, a floppy disk pictured hold 1.44MB.
We had hard drives in home computers there too.
Oh, 1998. My bad.
First several generations of hard drives really were awful and broke if you stared at them at them wrong. Floppies were more reliable, cheaper, and easy to get.
By 1998? No, hard drives were standard and reasonably reliable by then. Floppies were headed towards the end of their lifecycle with a high failure rate due to cutting costs.
I’m not sure what time you talk about, but it must be before 5,25" 20MB MFM drives and 30 MB RLL. Which were way more reliable than floppy disks and diskettes. These drives were available in the mid 80’s.
Maybe you are mistaking a few bad blocks that were allocated out in the allocation table, for being unreliable?
HDDs before, say, 1986, were junk. Those that came after will still very expensive until the late 90s, when prices started to drop.
Incidentally 1986 was the year I got my first hard-drive. ;)
And yes they were absolutely expensive in the mid 80’s. The first 20MB MFM i bought was almost $1000 USD. This was in Europe, prices were probably lower in USA.
But I worked as manager for a computer shop, and the 4 years I worked in that, we only had 1 defect under warranty.I remember it clearly, because it was a woman coming in with her computer saying her hard-drive was defect, most people being somewhat ignorant of computers, often called the whole computer hard-drive, and since defects were rare, I obviously thought she meant the computer. But no she actually knew what she was talking about, and she was the unlucky one to get the only defect hard-drive we ever delivered! OK my memory may not be perfect, there may have been others, but it certainly wasn’t considered a problem in general.
But I remember I heard about defects, very old Seagate drives could get stuck, if that happened, I was told you could tap them against the table flat down, and that would often resolve the issue!!!
Apart from that, I was much more confident with drives back then, because you could actually hear if they were going bad, as the drive would make a suspicious sound in its attempt to calibrate and reread, with a surface scan you could see if they were actually going bad, or it was just some unusual file operation. Generally in time to switch to another drive before actually losing any files. There may be some truth to drives being more unreliable back then, but they were (so to speak) more unreliable in a more reliable way.
Today this functionality is hidden in the SMART system, which I find unreliable. Drives reallocate bad blocks themselves keeping the user ignorant, until suddenly they are completely dead.
I agree with it being nice to be able to hear how they were doing. But it’s nice now to manage a thousand computers.
Ah yes, the stone age of 1998, “an era when computers didn’t have a hard drive”.🤦🤦🤦🤦
Thinking about cost effective solutions, like running it in an emulator on modern hardware with disk images instead of floppies. They’ve probably gone and spent millions on replacing working sensors and writing all new software though.
Thin computing and VMs are still expensive migration, especially something this proprietary I’d imagine
