Raising this dead article as Microsoft now delivers extended support pricing details for those who choose not to migrate to the newer version of Windows. The one they were told they’d not ever have to migrate to
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Well I suppose they were right. Windows 10 was the last version of Windows for me. I’m okay with not using what little only works on windows. Unless you need something more niche/specialised, windows isn’t worth the pain.
I wish I felt this way. I installed SuSE Tumbleweed a while ago, and while I overall liked it, it was so finicky. My bluetooth ceased working after updating a bunch of stuff and I never got it working again. I feel like things are very rarely plug and play with Linux, something Windows has gotten pretty good at since, well at least XP.
Back when I used Linux as my daily driver, around 2007-2011 I was okay with that. Sure I had issues every so often, but I didn’t mind spending time to solve them. Nowadays when I spend 8 hours in front of the computer for work, if I want to spend more time in front of the computer it’s generally because I either want to enjoy a game, or experiment with music, what have you, and having things spontaneously crap out on me would drive me nuts.
Maybe SuSE Tumbleweed wasn’t the right choice. My thinking there was; a rolling distro will always be up-to-date, no more big OS upgrades ever, I’ll just set things up the way I like it and that’s that.
That’s really the biggest problem I think Linux has, unfortunately it’s also one of Linux’s best features - it’s not a uniform experience. Yours won’t be the same as mine, etc.
Some things that should be simple aren’t, and sometimes getting things going can be frustrating, and you will without question at some point have to troubleshoot and fix something.
I’m fortunate that I have a lot of background and experience in the industry, and I can understand people don’t want to go to that trouble, just like people don’t want to learn to cook.
Most things in Linux I find these days do plug and play to some degree, but there is absolutely missing effort and/or openness from the hardware vendors. Like not being able to configure macro keys/extra mouse buttons without a windows vm.
Having said that, I found the way windows was going, adding crap into the os that I don’t want, and constantly changing where settings are etc. Changing my defaults, and so on. There’s just too much I don’t like about the way it’s managed. Also, winsecure.
I’m fortunate that I have a lot of background and experience in the industry, and I can understand people don’t want to go to that trouble, just like people don’t want to learn to cook.
I’m kind of in that boat, it’s not that I can’t solve the issues; I’ve used Linux for years. I work as a software developer, my entire day is about solving problems, sometimes it’s IT related, CI, dependency updates, build tools that cease working properly because of it, integration scripts, migrations, etc. and sometimes it’s more of a workflow thing; how do I best implement a solution that gets a user from A to B in the smoothest way possible?
In that way I’m like a professional cook that spent all day cooking for others, so when they get home they just don’t have the energy to put all that effort into themselves.
Having said that, I found the way windows was going, adding crap into the os that I don’t want, and constantly changing where settings are etc. Changing my defaults, and so on. There’s just too much I don’t like about the way it’s managed. Also, winsecure.
I can get behind this 100%, which is doubly funny because I make my money as a .NET developer. I work with various Microsoft platforms on a daily basis. As a developer the experience is honestly really comfy, they’ve done a good job there. Teams can fucking go die though. What a nightmare product.
In that way I’m like a professional cook that spent all day cooking for others, so when they get home they just don’t have the energy to put all that effort into themselves.
Funny that, I’m a Linux admin. I actually run my own servers for everything. I’m a firm believer in whoever owns the hardware owns the data. It’s just like work but with tools that I like. I like knowing where it is, and it’s not going to end the world if it’s offline for a time.
I did windows admin for about 5 years though up to 2008r2, and I have to say I do like AD and ntfs ACLs (except when they break). Those times do contribute to my aversion.
I too know a thing or two about developing, back in the day I did C, pascal, C++. I remember how much easier delphi was than mfc. I got out of developing when they started dumbing down the tools further (why didn’t you die, java… C#, etc.) Electron can’t die in a dumpster fire fast enough.
Don’t start me on teams. I’d say the same for o365 though. Hard to believe these products make me want work to go back to lotus notes, domino, sametime…
If you install Linux on any sort of proprietaryish system. Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. You need to expect to have some issues. And it’s not linux’s fault.
If you want to have a smooth “just works” experience with Linux. Either buy a system made to run it. System 76, tuxedo etc. Or build it yourself if you have the know how.
You wouldn’t try to install Mac OS on a non Mac and expect it to work flawlessly. We shouldn’t expect that of Linux either. It often still does. But that’s besides the point.
My favorite laptop to use right now A 2017 HP elitebook with an AMD chipset. The Bluetooth is indeed a bit of a problem unfortunately. But if I took the time to source a decent Intel m.2 upgrade board. It would be flawless apart from the fingerprint sensor which will never work. But again, that’s not linux’s fault.
Make the investment into a compatible system and you won’t regret it.
I don’t get why you’re being downvoted because these are in general good tips.
I assembled my PC myself, off the shelf parts of course (I don’t really do electronics) but it’s not a locked down SOC or anything like that. My first foray into Linux with it was a bit too early because the kernel on the OS I tried hadn’t been updated to support my CPU. That was a bit of a headscratcher because the problems manifested in an interesting way.
It doesn’t change the fact that setting things up with Linux is a lot of extra manual work, which at some point the benefits of doing it will outweigh the inconvenience of it, but I’ve not reached that point yet.
Probably a tonal issue on my part. Not intentional. But it’s happened before. Combined with the fact that despite my advice being sound. It’s far from an ideal solution for a number of people. Not everyone can buy online, and many don’t have the interest or aptitude to procure and assemble themselves. And it sucks that there isn’t a better option. Brick and mortars etc providing an option.
I have run Linux on systems from every major SI. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, IBM etc. Tower wise these days it’s fairly foolproof outside network or graphics interfaces. Realtek is a mess. And Nvidia IS getting better, but still shits the bed badly when I try to use it with Wayland and the software I want to use. Which is getting to be issue enough that I’m de-nvidifying where possible till Nvidia gets it together.
Laptops are a special hell though. Malfunctioning/non functioning screen controls, IO, and peripherals that can’t be replaced etc. The next laptop I buy will be one built with Linux compatibility in mind. I’m getting to the point myself that while I can chase down and fix issues. I would rather it just fully worked. Replacing the m.2 network interfaces on systems that allow it is great and all. But at my age my eyesight is getting to where attaching the antenna leads is very challenging.
Okay, let’s test this theory. Recommend me a reasonable mouse and keyboard, that have working Linux support, and I can buy them at a reasonable store. Do the same with a webcam.
Haha, you remind me of a brief period in 2014-ish when I tried to use Linux on an AMD laptop. It was a complete nightmare, nothing even remotely similar to my current issues with SuSE Tumbleweed. Fans going haywire, backlight issues, overheating. Gosh.
I’ve heard good things about the System76 laptops, it’s definitely enticing. Though I’m also interested in those modular Framework laptops, but they’re not available in my country.
I like the concept of framework as well. Though my understanding is they are generally compatible with Linux. But that isn’t a design goal with them. Still supposed to be a pleasant experience though. System 76 at least has Linux as a first class citizen. Even updating the BIOS from inside Linux. But either way it will be a much better experience than buying something like a Dell laptop or similar.
I’ll probably get down voted to oblivion, but I remember EVERYONE had the same “I’ll never move” rhetoric with Windows 7, and before that Windows XP. Ya’ll eventually move.
I’ve moved 3 of my 6 windows boxes from 10 to 11 and it’s not that much different. I just debloat the stuff I don’t want and move on. Even that isn’t different, ya’ll remember nlite? We’ve been ripping crap we didn’t want out of the OS for as long as I can remember.
Hell, I even remeber getting doublespace.exe off my old dos 5 disks so I could use it on my dos 6 and Windows 3.1.1 install. People who use Windows are just more used to tearing down what they don’t want rather than building up what they do (*nix). Is it harder these days…marginally…is there more to remove…yup. But it’s still the same crap we’ve always done.
The difference this time is that my computer literally can’t run Win 11. I’m not throwing away a perfectly good PC just because of Win 11’s hardware requirements.
If you still need/want to run Windows 11, you can download the ISO from Microsoft, and burn it to an USB Stick using Rufus.
Rufus lets you disable all those requirements.But I wouldn’t count on it working forever. Any Update could break your OS, cause Microsoft expects you to install it on conforming hardware.
If I wanted an operating that could break from a regular update I’d just install Arch!
What breaks Arch is people thinking
pacman -Syuis enough to keep it running.
So I WAS on 11 until all of the sudden my computer refused to boot with the special hardware thing enabled. Had to downgrade to Windows 10 and the mobo manufacturer’s response was ‘try replacing every other part in your PC’…sorry I don’t have the money to have spare parts of everything just lying around. 10 works perfectly fine, and it’ll give me an excuse to upgrade my mobo in Oct 2025. :-)
I remember EVERYONE had the same “I’ll never move” rhetoric with Windows 7
I did eventually move… to Linux. Windows 7 was the last version of Windows I’ve had installed on any machine I own.
Dude stop reminding me how old I am. I just discovered arthritis bones that my favorite grandma decided to give me this morning.
Cheers mate!
I never upgraded from Win 7. I used in untill Steam stopped its support and now my gaming rig runs on Linux.
Why is windows still bloated after all these decades?
Well, if you’re sticking with Windows, you really have no choice. The sun is rapidly setting on using Windows 7 as a “daily driver” - a lot of new software doesn’t support it and the older versions that work on Windows 7 are getting less and less viable. Windows 8 is in the same boat as Windows 7. Windows 10 goes out of support next year, but you’ve probably got to 2028 or maybe 2029 before you really have to move.
I ended up riding Windows 7 pretty much to the bitter end. Steam dropping Windows 7 support last December was it for the last Windows box. Everything now is running Linux.
I moved away, but not to newer windows.
Windows 10 is the last version of Windows (that I am going to use)
I’ll be the guy in this thread, I switched to mint for everything except CS2 (Wtf valve fix your native client) and will not be looking back.
I had to use windows yesterday. Public computer at a print shop.
Everything was shades of white, the scroll bar was barely visible, when I enlarged a window the ux elements scaled up, and there was already tons of dead ui space, so I assumed there weren’t any more to show. Also, every program, even though they were all Microsoft, gave a different screen when I hit control p.
I couldn’t figure out how to adjust paper size. Ive been using computers since 199(2/3), when I could barely talk. Ive used legacy systems older than me-for industrial shit, for novelty. I grew up mostly a MS-DOS then windows girl. I’ve installed arch. Ive run arch successfully as a daily driver, then moved to qubes for a few years. I have systems so hacked together, I need to lick a bit of wire I connected poorly to trigger a thing (3v, its fine) I currently have a dead bug soldered project sitting half finished next to me (the hardware is done, works, I’m just bad at code), in a room that could mostly pass for the set of a live action ‘serial experiment lain’ remake.
And I couldn’t adjust print settings on modern windows. Because it’s just that garbage. Two days ago I wasnt a fanatical Linux partisan. I think I am now.
I replied to your other post and this was below so don’t feel compelled to type it again up there.
Right sorry saw this in the other screen assumed you were responding to this one.
I guess I’ve confused things a bit.
Well if your solution to craptacular useless ux is ‘get gud’, which was sort of implied, then you sound like a certain kind of arch user. Just install that on your primary machine; I’m sure it’ll be fine.
Yes but then vanguard and blackrock (they control about 15% of m$ shares) saw that their investment in AMD (again, with 15% they’re the biggest institutional shareholders) and their investment in Intel (more billions in shares) needed a way to increase CPU sales, so they told Microsoft to add artificial CPU requirements in order to send to the dumpster any computer produced before 2018
send to the dumpster any computer produced before 2018
You mean send into the arms of a frugal Linux enthusiast ;)
Everyone that was paying attention to the Microsoft Windows support lifecycle web page back then knew that statement was horse shit.
Well, on one hand you had one line in a table in a formal web page.
On the other, you had that very awkward phrasing (if he merely meant ‘latest’):
because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,
But maybe that was a misunderstanding and he did mean ‘latest’, but in the flurry of internet coverage, Microsoft never issued a statement highlighting the misunderstanding. Instead they let that run rampant.
In fact, it was very consistent with a lot that happened with Windows 10:
- The mass “free to upgrade for everyone going back to 7” toward the goal of getting their userbase largely on a consistent vintage that is more supportable
- The twice a year major updates that were pitched as ‘new features and functions’, with a more ‘rolling release’ feel
So while certainly that one lifecycle page did have it stated, I have to wonder why Microsoft was mum on the subject even as their community was ‘getting it wrong’. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reality is that they were seriously considering it. That guy might have even meant ‘last’ because he thought the ‘eternal update’ camp were going to win out.
You have to understand technology is constantly evolving, which requires upgrades to allow utilization those technologies.
So they probably needed the upgrade for a new EULA, to allow for improved shenanigans built right into Windows, that will be a huge benefit to Microsoft, and would allow closer more invasive monitoring of your system, but wouldn’t be legal without the new EULA.
Very legal and very cool. 🤑And the thing of it is, millions of non-tech savvy people would not mind about having to move to Windows 11 and would do so in due course if Microsoft didn’t deliberately cripple it so it won’t run on a wide swath of not-too-old hardware.
They make your machine slow to you need to replace it. People now see computers and phones as almost disposable
They didn’t even do that here, they just flat out blacklisted old CPU in the installer.
The last [good] version of Windows.
Longhorn (pre-reset) was my last version of windows back in 2004. after that mess, i refused to ever go back.
Windows 7 was peak Windows experience IMO, and to follow it up win Windows 8…
I consider Windows 7 the last good version, but I still consider Windows 2000 to be when Microsoft was at the top of their game.
Windows 7 is awful
It was their last good OS.
Still proprietary spyware, it looks awful and it is bloated.
Let’s agree to disagree
It’s shit compared to XP, but it’s wonderful when compared to 11, or even 10.
I am mostly a Linux user (surprise, Lemmy!) but recently started a new job. Given the choice of a Windows laptop vs a Macbook Pro, I took the latter, despite my long-time distaste for Apple.
I do not, even in a work setting, even want to touch Windows 11 in any recurring capacity (yes, I did try it – at my last role).
i moved pirated ltsc. my free w10 licence burned but its ok :D
I would use Linux but my graphics card only has nouveau drivers in Linux and that’s a lot worse than Nvidia drivers in Windows 10. Same for some older ATI/AMD cards that still pack a punch in Windows with the official drivers but aren’t supported in Linux in official drivers.
Out of curiosity, what GPU do you have that is not decently supported? Both the latest AMD and NVidia stuff is, at least for the general public stuff.
I will have a look and get back to you.
I must admit however that I have had a change of mind after my comment and that it may have been a failure on my end. I think I may have overlooked an option for at least one of my cards, and I have since also found a guide that uses a PPA in Ubuntu.
Also besides this I have some really old (pci-express) graphics cards in active use because they are better than onboard and the pc’s are still fast enough. But it would be nice to get those working with official drivers (even if older) so that some simpler games like FlatOut 1 & 2 can still be played on them.
Move over Arch, I am the rolling release right now
I had to upgrade to Win 11 today ;(
Hyper-V configuration version 9.3 and above is not available on Win 10.
And yes I know about Linux, my laptop runs it. But I’m not in the mood of migrating a fuck ton of stuff to another OS. I have around 20 TB of storage on my PC and redoing everything should be a pain.
I also don’t want to forget my Windows knowledge overtime.
I will absolutely disable as much bullshit as possible though. I didn’t even have web search in the search bar in win 10 (because it broke the search bar, but still).
Had to use win11 yesterday.
It was completely unusable fucking trash and even the ux was terrible.
If it helps, my media drives transferred straight over to Linux when I cleaned by last windows device.
Yeah, I actually liked the start menu in Win 10. Very customizable and usable if you actually spend some time to set it up.
Now the start menu is barebone bullshit.
Even the visuals; no contrast, no style, no visual economy, no virtue of any kind.
Well at least it’s better than Gnome, lol.
Its honestly not. I would rather use gnome than win11.
I didn’t even like old gnome.
I really dislike gnome (obviously) so pretty much anything is better. Win 11 isn’t that bad. It’s in some ways worse than Win 10 but it’s not close to Gnome bad IMO of course.
I run KDE on my laptop (and steam deck) and it’s very nice.
It really is that bad tho.
It was completely unusable fucking trash and even the ux was terrible.
How do you say this with a straight face. I know, just know, you want to push Linux, it’s a must here on Lemmy, but to say it’s unusable trash does more to denigrate my opinion of your opinion than my opinion of the OS. It functions substantially similar to W10.
I want to truly know what you mean. What did you try to do but were 100% prohibited doing due to W11?
Read what I wrote, dear. I answered literally all your questions.
You couldn’t figure out how to change paper size. Seems like operator error.
But the ux was so bad, I described many of the ways it was bad.
If your solution is ‘get gud’, might I recommend you install arch?
It isn’t get good. I’m sure you’re more than capable of figuring it out. It just feels like, a long with so many other similar posts, shit in windows because windows bad. And I’m as nostalgic for XP and 98 as many people on here are, in the same way I’m nostalgic for many other things that happened during my formative years, but to go to say windows is unusable is just completely counter to my person experience, which is that windows has removed some power user features over the past 20 years, but remains largely the same. I also don’t use it the way I used to.
Setting up a Linux box for me would just be a hobbyist exercise, and so I may, I will, just haven’t gotten around to it yet.
This isnt power user shit. Its GUI printing a document.
The ux was actively terrible. Yeah I was sad when I had to uninstall 7; nothing worked with it anymore. But I went into 11 and it was just completely terrible. Youre a boiled frog, friend.
I cannot think of a ux mistake they didn’t make. And there’s no fucking excuse; it’s the flagship product of a multi billion dollar company! And it wasnt even pretty to look at!
I’m not a Linux partisan because Linux is good. I’m a Linux partisan because Linux, at the very least, isnt getting actively worse over time. Its not losing features. Its not being dumbed down. You don’t need to tolerate this week’s added bullshit corporate bloat.
I wish to fuck I could still be using windows 7, but I can’t. Windows is dead. So Linux it is.
I must be in the minority that actually prefers 11 to 10
My PC is 10, my laptop for work is now 11. It’s the same. I guess I’m just not a power user but it operates exactly the same for me. I wouldn’t update from 10, but I wouldn’t not buy 11.
Technically both are 10, but I do like the new UI on 11.
Are you saying 11 is just a reskinning? Or are you saying my laptop is 10?
Windows 11 does report its version number as 10. The latest release of Windows 11 is 10.0.22631.3374 but I don’t know enough to say it is just a reskinning of Windows 10.
Appreciate the clarification. It sure feels like something after the period, not before.
