Let’s face it, the dems don’t care about the commoners, the republicans are actually pure evil, everyone was happy when that shitstain CEO got shot.
Maybe we should build on this momentum we have to drive actual change at the political level.
my first act as president in 2029 would be to issue a full and unconditional pardon of the billionaire killer.
edit:
well alrighty then, followup question, does anyone want to join my newly formed political party? I’m going to start working on drafting our mission statement, or manifesto or whatever it should be called.
Further Edit: I set up a lemmy community for us to post shit about it. If you want to join, that’s our official, unofficial space. https://lemmy.world/c/newpoliticalparty
We should not. This idea of starting a new party to do something has been exhaustively understood for a long time. All it is capable of doing is hurting the major party your new party is closest to. Best explained here.
It is exciting to create something new you have total control over, and that excitement can help you get off the ground and feel like you’re going somewhere, but this is an illusion, an eventually that momentum slams into a wall as you realize you’ve only shifted de facto political reality in the United States in the opposite direction you wanted to (again: because all third parties can do is steal votes from their most closely aligned major party).
Bernie Sanders has had this figured out for a long time. He shits on the rich morning and night. He’s also a grownup and knows that his only viable course is to try to shift one of the major parties themselves. He thinks he has better odds with the Democrats, and he’s probably right, though maybe “less bad odds” is a better characterization.
Entering into a major party is not fun and exciting and you don’t have a lot of control and quick momentum. But it is the only way. Small progress, long game. A flash in the pan 3rd party will only burn you.
Don’t Start With President! Running for president as a party that doesn’t have any senators or governors is a massive waste of money on an ego trip that normally hurts the side that people voting for them support.
Start with safe democratic states, like New York and California. Run for safe democratic mayor-ships and house seats. Once you get a couple of wins, momentum, and a bench of candidates: then try for governor or senator. Once you get more than 3 of them THEN you choose the most popular among the group and run them for president.
You’re right, I’m not actually serious about running for president or fielding a candidate for president, but we should run in all the deep blue and the deep red states.
Yes, with a caveat.
Create a single-issue party for something like free healthcare, with your sole goal to be to drain votes from Democrats. Gain enough traction, and that party will welcome you into the fold with open arms, and will actually fucking listen to your issue as their primary platform.
This is essentially what happened with ukip and Brexit in the UK. It took a while for the movement to gain traction but it did eventually start to put pressure on the government at the time.
The only issue is if that you’ll no doubt need rich backers to gain influence… But that might be a bit of an issue if your entire platform is to shit on the same people who you need.
Will they though? Biden was pitching a public option to compete with the other MFA candidates in 2020. He hasn’t uttered a single word about it since he was nominated.
draining republican votes is the solution.
No. Socialists of the past have never won any political victories by saying “rich bad,” the victory comes from presenting alternative solutions like public ownership and central planning. What you are describing is adventurism, not a genuine revolutionary movement.
I suggest you read my intro to Marxism list.
I mean the French revolution would like a word with you.
Also rich bad. It’s demonstrably true that rich people are completely disconnected from reality and will step on anyone to maintain their wealth.
It is not all of them, but it is most of them. History has always seen class warfare and this time is not different .
The French Revolution was a bourgeois revolution. It deposed the monarchy, but unlike what the Paris Commune tried to achieve, the Bourgeoisie became the new owners of the State. Proletarian Revolution needs organization and unity.
Fair.
What more powerful motivator than the common rich folk being subject to an entirely different life, government, justice system, etc?
Hopefully people wise up that class warfare never ended.
That is one useful motivator, that can be combined with Socialist and Communist theory of organization to actually successfully overthrow and replace the previous system.
I didn’t actually say socialism though, did I? I mean, I’m a socialist, but I think we have to just focus on shitting on the rich, because it’s easy and people will be able to join in.
I’m also not ruling out throwing actual shit at the rich.
If your only platform is uniting on hatred, and have no actual plans in place for improvement, you just become terrorists, rather than revolutionaries. Something being “easy” doesn’t mean it is effective. Lenin actually wrote about such a group, the Socialist Revolutionaries, in the article Revolutionary Adventurism. The SRs had taken to advocating assassination as it “transfers power from the elites to the masses” (something historically false) and declared that theory was bad, because it can get in the way of unity. Such directionless action ultimately doesn’t change anything.
Hating the Capitalists is well and good, but without a unified plan to replace them, the hate becomes the goal and nothing gets better. That’s why we can celebrate the death of this bozo while recognizing nothing will change because of it unless the workers get organized.
Shitting on the rich has most definitely worked in MANY situations.
Only when combined with actual practical plans in place beforehand.
Isn’t that what this is?
No. This platform is “rich bad.” It doesn’t present an alternative, it preserves existing systems that give rise to wealth disparity without tackling them and presenting an alternative.
Oops. I meant the community that OP started. It’s a place to hammer out those details on top of RICH BAD.
People have already hammered out those details, the most major arguments are on the basis of Anarchism or Marxism. OP didn’t invent anything, the answer lies in the past. PSL already exists, as does FRSO, what specifically is wrong with these where an entirely new party is necessary?
Since you seem interested, start one. Don’t ask someone to do it for you, or for their approval. Do what you truly believe, not what others support.
Seeking approval is kinda what politics is. That’d be the poll in politics.
If you do. I think it’s a great idea.
But don’t fall into the “green party” loophole of just sabotaging neo-liberal democrats and helping literal facists get elected.
Start local. Run for seats you can win. Priosritise states with open primary systems.
We need a grassroots movement.
Right now is actually the perfect time to create a third party. You have effectively two years to get people excited about an actual progressive party and if the DNC come knocking saying you’re going to split the vote, tell them that they are splitting the vote and they should fold into you.
I’m fucking tired of the Democrats learning the wrong lessons from lost elections. They’d rather lose than give up power.
Or hijack the democratic platforms like how magats hijacked republican party.
There is a reason why it worked for the Republicans and won’t work for the Democrats: the bases are vastly different.
Republicans, by in large, will vote for a Republican even if they don’t like the candidate. I saw this a lot when I was a poll worker. They don’t even care about their platform. So long as they have an R at the end of their name, they get a vote from Republicans.
While Democrats vote Democrat, they’ll only come out to vote if they are energized. They won’t come out to vote if they don’t feel like you’ve earned it. We saw this in 2016 and 2024.
Simply put, Republicans are more reliable voters.
The Democrat tent is very large with often conflicting values. A lot of single-issue voters will simply stay home than to vote for a Democrat. Because of this, it is rare when a candidate will arise that will galvanize and coalesce the base.
The last time it happened was Obama.
Doesn’t even have to be progressive per se, just an “Eat The Elites” party would probably do well as the one and only platform at this point.
Since criminals can be president now, I think Joe Exotic should be president. Make America exotic again!
People don’t want to empower the workers and take away money and power from billionaires. Bernie Sanders already tried this but it’s not how America works and what Americans want.
With the current system, every new party will take away votes from the party it’s closest to. This ensures more voting percentage for the opponents. So when you create a socialist party, most of the votes you will get will be from democrats who won’t vote for the democratic party, so it’s easier for the Republicans to win. You just helped the opposite side.
Maybe when you create a party close to the Republicans you can steal their voters so the democrats have a higher chance of winning. Maybe do the same within the democrats to scatter their votes in a way so Bernie will get the majority.
We need a new system. Not a new party to add to the shitty system.
No shit, but how are we going to do that? What would we need to do to effect that change?
Unfortunately, the only real path out of this at this point is violent revolution. We tried everything else. For decades. Pleaded with them to listen. They arrested and murdered us. Brainwashed the average person using sophisticated psychological conditioning. Captured every branch of government and agency.
Tell me another way. I am begging you. But I’ve been looking for years and I have hit a wall. We are out of time.
They chose this.
Until we have a voting system where 3rd parties are viable (for example. Ranked Choice Voting, Star Voting, Approval Voting, etc.), we absolutely do not benefit in any way for the existence of more parties.
Whether intentional or not, America today is a two-party system by design. If you want more choices beyond the Democrats and Republicans, you need to help us enact voting system reforms which are necessary to allow 3rd parties to exist legitimately. We aren’t joking when we say that voting 3rd party is throwing your vote away; it very much is.
Y’all need an actual left of center, worker based party to undo this late stage capitalist nightmare that’s happening now
We need one, but a third party will not get the desired result. It will only subtract from whoever major party is a little more like it, in this case probably the Democrats. Sad to say: the only meaningful path forward is to change the parties from within. I know that sounds daunting and boring. But can anyone reasonably think this will be easy and fun?
you’re god damned right.
*left
Phew, a lot of their Democrats actually seem to think they sit left of the spectrum, and they already get called commies by their right wing. Their brains might split in two when they realize that their Democrats are merely another side of the same liberal coin…
We have several.
Need to fix the broken FPTP voting system first. Otherwise any left leaning political party will just take votes away from the dems and hand the election to the republicans.
And Republicans know this by the way, any left leaning fringe party will get financial donations from the Republican Party,
Thank god the actual answer is already here. Now let’s please vote it above the well-meaning fantasy comments saying “yeah! do it!”
But without rich people, who’s going to fund it?
With enough momentum, we can start a grassroots movement.
They just arrested the only one of us with enough guts to do anything tangible about the fucked up system. If we stop now, he’ll go down, shit will stay the same. We need to be outraged. We need to be out there, shitting on billionaire CEOs of insurance companies. We need to make sure that nobody forgets who holds the actual power. It’s not them, the wealthy few, it’s us, the masses.
Our grandparents parents pulled off more difficult shit with less than what we had, we cannot let these fuckers take back what was fought so hard for.
Well, good on you man. I’m skeptical this event can be pivoted into actual positive change for the average American, but if you have enough resolve to make a go of it, you’re a better man than I.
Should you? Why shouldnt you?
Because it will only spoil whichever major party is a little more closely aligned with it.
Can you elaborate please, cause USA doesn’t have a real left party at the minute, does it?
This video gives a great visual explanation of why third parties in US politics can only be spoilers. They cannot build anything.
America already has “real left” parties like the Peace & Freedom party and the Green party. Starting yet another tiny party to occupy the left will add nothing. And trying to grow any of these third parties can only do one thing: take votes from Democrats, thereby helping Republicans.
It’s easy to say “US doesn’t have a real left party” but most people who care about that would rather not hurt Democrats and help Republicans, because Democrats are at least closer to the left out of the two major parties, even if neither is as far left as we would like.
The only option is to join the Democratic party and attempt to shift it left. This is exactly what America’s most prominent 3 leftists have done: AOC, Dennis Kucinich, and Bernie Sanders. They know that 3rd parties are a death wish. This is an objective fact. Everyone who cares about the left needs to grow up, accept this, and move on. Just like Bernie has. You don’t see him calling for a 3rd party. And he’s clearly a “real leftist” by any measure.
Yeah, FPTP. Im British mate. I know all about it.
By real left, Im talking real terms, not relative to other parties.
I answered you, mate. These parties DO exist in the US they are just really small, and this is why.
Theyre small cause of a lack of funding and an education system and media that tells people anything left is evil.
In the UK we had Jeremy Corbyn run for PM in 2017, in spite of a character assassination that said he supported the IRA and would ruin the country (That was never backed up with any facts…), and people saying Labour just get us in debt (Again, bollocks.), he still came incredibly close to winning, much like Sanders.
Well I’m aware of them, however small they might be, and I support their values. I would still never vote for their presidential candidates because of FPTP.
So I don’t think that funding and awareness are the issue. Even with those out of the way, it just doesn’t make sense to vote for them.
You’re probably thinking I’m not a real left voter but I assure yo I read the Green and P&F voter guides every time I fill out a ballot, to understand their advice on measures and candidates, but would never, ever vote for one of their candidates in any FPTP race. It would only help conservatives.
Probably doesn’t have enough money
All part of the plan init.
I don’t think we’re going to gain any traction until we override Citizens United and make bribing public officials illegal again. That would allow us to take back the legislative process and begin passing bills that the super rich are not going to like.
First past the post is what you’re tangling with.
It makes it so third parties only hurt their closest friend and lose to their least favorite party. Taking that energy into the democratic party itself is probably the best bet. Not good, but best.
In ranked choice, yes a new party would probably be best.
