Just do it. Stop yapping, start doing. The hemming and hawing and trying to be proper about this shit is infuriating. They don’t play by the rules so, fuck it - pull a Brazil and yank the rug out. It worked.
Here on Lemmy, people who claim to advocate for freedom of speech and information, demanding for a social network to be shutdown, without even understanding the implications of it.
Details at six
freedom of speech and information
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Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
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The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/11-freedom-expression-and-information
Anyway, go find your braincells.
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Meta is a super invasive data harvesting tool that creates shadow profiles for non users, which is now being used to bolster authoritatarianism. If you fail to grasp thar you are either dense or malicious.
Please, do it.
The government is allowed to mess with cokes recipe because we don’t want it to be too bad for people’s health. I don’t see why we shouldn’t mess with algorithms to protect our personal and national health
Do it now
Lets use their playbook: The only way to protect the electoion in less than 2 months, is to block Twitter and Facebook in germany completely.
Let them go to the courts, I’m sure we can find a lawyer or 2 skilled enough to draw out the process for 6-8 weeks. After that, whatever, unblock them, pay some “sorry we were wrong” money.
Then we have 4 years to solve the problem in a more permanent way.
Better shut off the complete platform. And issue an international arrest warrant for foreign poitical influence / election interference.
Democracies have to start making laws that stop assholes like Musk from interfering in their domestic politics - including and up to imposing heavy fines, service shutdown and personal criminal liability. If a person is not a national and domiciled in that country they should have no right to influence that election through campaign contributions or any other assistance.
Musk and russia. Russia has been a far greater problem and is also behind many stupid musk takes.
Let me paraphrase a Hungarian saying in English, related to doing the bare minimum:
Thank you for going to the toilet and not taking a shit right where you were!
Can you tell me the ungarian one, my girl friend wants to know.
Elons x needs to die
Elon
s xneeds to die
just grow a pair and ban twitter, spacex, starlink, and tesla from operating in europe already.
there’s no good reason to let them operate.
this could create e-waste if managed improperly
They’re mostly all national security threats, especially with Elon and Putin having a special relationship.
I mean AfD is also pro-russia AND have neo-nazi’s in its ranks.
They are at 20% in polls just before the german election.
I don’t think many people have as many issues as they should have with russia or they just don’t care.
ok so people who already have teslas should be fucked? if they will be forced to stop operation, some service offerings will not be available. nice
a car isnt a political statement for everybody, for some people its a fucking tool
edit: modifying software of cars in general is highly regulated. so banning tesla would create issues for people having those cars, i would love to “homebrew” them but hey, thats fucking illegal
As you said, they are services. They are not required.
edit: modifying software of cars in general is highly regulated. so banning tesla would create issues for people having those cars, i would love to “homebrew” them but hey, thats fucking illegal
How is it even related to services?
repair, checkup and support services maby? all the stuff a car needs in its lifetime? or did i get something wrong?
Dunno. Sounds like something anti-monopoly body should have banned anyway.
Tesla is getting a buttload of cash from the EU soon in climate compensation (also Volvo but not so much).
Shutting Off X’s Algorithm
Hey EU, that’s not how any of this works. First of all, you do not have any control over that – even if you demand it be done, there’s no way to verify compliance. Second, there’s always an “algorithm.” There can’t not be an “algorithm;” that would mean it would display nothing at all. Even the choice to just display tweets chronologically is still a choice, and implemented in the form of an “algorithm.”
What you do have the power to do – and what you should do – is simply just straight-up block X entirely.
Worked brilliantly for the Brazilian government. Lulu pulled the plug for… a week? BlueSky suddenly got incredibly popular. Musk panicked and folded on every demand. And the amount of pro-Bolsonaro/coup-posting on Twitter sank like a brick.
Realistically I think that is why banning him even as a brief show of force will be very effective. He understands pain, it’s the universal language.
Literally the only rule Musk follows is the rule of power. Legal shit means nothing, might is right. So yeah, govs should deal with him the same way before it’s too late.
Oh they can turn off musk’s algorithm quite easily: just ban the whole fucking site.
He’s folded like origami on this already, and he’ll do it again.
he folded to brazilian courts last year. but now, with trump in power, he may have more means to pressure back.
If WWIII broke out over the EU blocking Twitter and the US lost would Musk take a cyanide pill?
who knows… but the us has softer means to pressure europe
I wouldn’t call reverse chronological order with blocks accounted for an algorithm.
Twitter didn’t always have an algorithm.
Mastodon does not have an algorithm. Or am I not being inclusive enough in my definition?
Even trivial sorting algorithms are still called algorithms.
to not piss off computer scientists and mathematicians with their dear word “algorithm”, you may want to narrow it down with the expression recommendation algorithms.
3 spaces is the ideal indentation width.
There, that should keep them busy for a couple hours.
An important thing to consider: Mastodon doesn’t have an “algorithm” for presenting posts in your subscription feed.
That doesn’t mean it “does not have an algorithm” entirely, though. There’s a couple of non-trivial ones being used to recommend friends and calculate the trending posts and tags that show up on the front page, and they do actually consider likes/shares as part of scoring.
Yeah an algorithm is a series of mathematic instructions so from my armchair I’d say sort by date is not an algorithm. But to complicate things further there seems to be a sticking point with some that social media uses heuristics and not algorithms. I don’t really understand the difference nor do I really care as this is all too much about semantics - /u/grue’s final point is still spot on IMO. Why mess with letting a billionaire toy with the minds of your citizens? Let the USA have twitter and all that chaos to themselves.
You should take your armchair to be reupholstered or something, because sorting things is like the primary type of algorithm. Even if it’s as straightforward as “sort by date”, since objects in the database are not stored by date, they have to be sorted to get them displayed by date.
Huh, I stand corrected!
Wow you got out of that armchair quickly!
I wouldn’t say primary type, they just happen to be the primary example that theory (complexity analysis etc) is taught with. Hence also the veritable zoo of very very bad sorting algorithms that still have proper names. There’s no quantum bogosort for string search.
Ah well glad to learn something
Fair enough.
The algorithm part is a sticky point for me, because it’s always been my contention that you could directly map most of the systemic issues of social media with the rise of engagement algorithms.
In other words, reverse chronological order is the only way to do healthy social media in my opinion. (Or maybe I should say, healthiest). Algorithms introduce too many pernicious incentives. They optimize everything around the worst things.
Most people love algorithms though. And it seems most people don’t want to trade algorithms away. A reason that many fall off mastodon is the lack of an algorithm.
Absolutely agreed. I’d love to say that I left Facebook and then Twitter for heroic reasons but both of them pushed me out when there was no longer a way to just get the reverse chronological. Facebook when the algos took over and then Twitter when they started forcing people to pay for Tweetdeck.
That’s what you get for election interference.
Kill X already
Fractured internet here we come
I know this is unpopular and goes against the ideals of the early internet, but the open internet (especially social networks) is hugely damaging at the moment.
This isn’t just “people having different opinions”, but rather full-scale cyber warfare that’s currently happening. It’s also only going to get worse…
Propaganda works, and it works quite well. Nobody is fully immune.
So unless you feel like having Musk/Russia/China dictate your life (through forcing their shit agenda), banning their attack vectors is really the only play.
It’s already here
Oh cum on! Don’t tell me you gonna try for twitter?
This is what I was worried about with tiktok being banned.
I don’t have a tiktok. I don’t like the concept. I won’t be joining loops. I just don’t like the core concept.
Now add in that it’s a chinese spying tool, and I’m all the way out.
Buuuuuuut it does pose a tricky situation. Ban it, and set a precident that banning social networks is ok. Maybe they ban the fediverse next. We all know this country is run by billionaires and big business. We all know that the onlu reason tiktok is banned is because it competes with X, and Elon is basically president now.
So what stops them from banning the fediverse? Every single instance is now illegal. And since the fediverse is so unknown, it’s not like there would be much pushback politically.
So. Ban the chinese spy tool, or defend net nuetrality?
I’m sorry to say this, but the web ≠ the internet and foreign services ≠ the internet. If it was a question of starting massive invasive national firewalls, or segmenting the national net away from the wider internet through either routing or physical separation, then we are in agreement.
But tbh Twitter and Meta’s platforms should be carpet banned from Europe. Reddit can stay, and so can TikTok, but after the history both Mega and Musk’s Twitter has had, I think it’s perfectly defensible to tell them to fuck off - especially when they target vulnerable people who are impressionable, like the elderly.
And please, no American “slippery slope” argument, because it should be added to the logical fallacies list.
It IS a logical fallacy and it predates the US…
What’s the name for the logical fallacy when you attribute a type of logical fallacy to the country that happened to name it?
You don’t know and yet you pipe up. There’s a logical fallacy in there somewhere.
Have you ever heard of a joke or are those banned on .ml too?
how would you ban any internet service without firewalls or routing? DNS bans are trivial to bypass and maybe I’m not thinking hard enough but I’m out of practical ways to prevent access to Twitter or meta.
There’s a barrier to entry in those cases. If you’re DNS actively reroutes people are mostly inclined not to try and figure out a way to bypass it - unless bothered, like we see with the porn access law in Florida.
In any case, you can do packet dropping on a routing level from the ISP - which technically isn’t a national firewall, even if it serves the same purpose.
Segmenting the internet means doing routing in a way where the link between nodes is actively blocked, which is something completely different and is more what you’ll get behind the Chinese “firewall” - when it is more like a physical barrier than a firewall rule, because it’ll be impossible to actually facilitate a manual link, whereas a DNS blocking can be more easily bypassed.
There’s level to these problems and just having a “national firewall” means nothing, because it doesn’t get down to the minutia of what’s actually being achieved.
TikTok competes with X
So 1: your chronology is wrong, because this was all done under Biden, 2: Trump apparently is asking the SC to intercede on TikToks behalf and keep them going, and 3: in what way does a short video thing for braindamaged teens compete with twitter?
Ban the chinese spy tool
Americans: “TikTok is an insidious weapon of a foreign government used to brainwash our children into believing all sorts of horrifying leftist ideas.”
Also Americans: “If you don’t like Twitter, just turn off your phone. I don’t see what the big deal is. Edward Whoden? You sound like a Russian bot.”
At what point did I discredit Edward Snowden, or defend twitter?
