Ickplant I feel bad for you. You keep trying to make wholesome posts but you end inadvertently triggering discourse. First pit bull discourse and now hijab discourse.
Edit: Comments are reopened.
Fuck religion that even makes this gesture possible
Fuck people that want to tell women what not to wear. You are doing the same like those forcing a hijab.
Most women choose to wear hijab and are defending the right to do so.
It’s impressive how you turned this to be my fault lmao. Fuck you man, I don’t decide what people want to wear. Go take a hike
“Choose” is a very loaded word here. Yes, technically, they have a choice between wearing a hijab and an alternative, but what is that alternative? For someone in a conservative Muslim community, there is an extreme stigma against choosing not to wear a hijab, so it’s a choice between wearing one or being shunned. If it’s a theocratic country, it’s a choice between wearing one and death. Yes, technically a choice, but no more of a choice than being robbed at gunpoint and “choosing” to empty your pockets to not be shot in the head.
Everyone can still wear a scarves on their heads. Believe it or not it’s not a new or exclusively religious article of clothing.
Any scarve that covers the hair is considered a hijab. There is no special scarve for a hijab and hijabs can take all shapes, colors and patterns.
Their purpose is not the same.
And who can judge about the purpose? And who has the right to judge about the purpose? And who has the right to arbitrarily forbid the one and embrace the other over his perception of the purpose?
It all boils down to white people, in particular white men thinking they are superior to muslim women and they get to decide what is best for them. That is deeply ingrained racism.
Funny how suddenly iranian women can become white people. Funny how suddenly turkish people can be white people. Just keep playing the victim.
The flak you’re getting for this is bizarre. There are tons of women who wear a hijab by choice. It’s self expression, hell people even do pinups/porn in them so it’s not like the religious association is absolute or binding.
Women should not be forced to wear a hijab, but they also shouldn’t be forced not to. Feminism is about choice, the choice between embracing traditional roles and rules or eschewing them with equal acceptance.
Articles from women who choose to wear a hijab:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-right-to-choose-to-wear-or-not-hijab/
https://www.aclu.org/documents/discrimination-against-muslim-women-fact-sheet
Seriously…. Who downvotes this??? Such a wholesome share!
Transphobic people.
AND islamophobic people.
I imagine the downvoters assume the post is making a point about Muslims in general, which it isn’t.
It isn’t Islamophobic thinking Muslims are transphobic, they are. Much like most of the world outside the West.
“most of the world outside the West”.
Is this trans friendly West in the room with us currently?
Also countries like Thailand are culturally much more advanced on Trans acceptance.
Because it didn’t happen.
You were there? It’d go a long way were you to provide proof.
Lmao, Christian logic. PrOvE it dIDnT HaPpEN. 🤪
Who hurt you, and why is it our fault?
How is some meme forum relevant to who has the burden of proof?
How is a Wikipedia page relevant to a nice story someone shared?
You were there? It’d go a long way were you to provide proof.
The wiki page is a famous illustration of how it’s absurd to put the burden of proof on the people who are disapproving and it should always fall on people making the claim.
Despite your down votes I agree with you. I’m always conflicted about voting on something that appears to be clearly deceiving so usually I abstain from voting entirely but someone who cares more about this can easily justify a down-vote.
You can upload literally anything on this site and it’ll be downvoted. Sometimes even for the content, usually just because creeps will go back through your history and downvote everything you’ve posted for a week or two.
I’m not worried about it, though.
I apologize for the downvote. I agree with you, it just felt like the right thing to do. :p
That’s what happens when you mention downvotes. It primes people mentally to do it. The good news is these are completely meaningless internet points.
I’d cry
Forgive my ignorance but can anyone explain what happened in this interraction?
It would be against Islam for a woman to show herself (without a head covering) to a man she wasn’t married/related to. This isn’t true for woman and other woman. This person is trans and their friend treated them, through religious tradition, that she accepts her friend as a woman.
A wholesome exchange based on the intersection of trans acceptance and religious misogyny!
A trans person is claiming that a woman excepts said trans person as a woman.
Religious views of trans people in Iran are particularly interesting. Though it is an Islamic theocracy where being gay is explicitly against the law, being trans is narrowly accepted. Gender reassignment surgery is legal and formal gender recognition after the procedure is supported by the theocracy. The fact that being gay is potentially punishable by death can lead to people choosing gender reassignment rather than execution. The government’s strict belief that there are no sexual minorities in the country leads to an oddly absolute acceptance of the gender of trans people.
This reminds me of Japan. I’ve not confirmed this myself, but it jives with my understanding of the culture. Binary trans people are generally less ‘disruptive’ to society and less of a perceived ‘problem’ to the mainstream because hey we can fit you into a box and its associated social roles. They really like their boxes and roles. But if you are queer in other more visible ways, like gay people trying to get married or be accepted socially, then that gets frowned upon for upsetting the apple cart.
Because the apple can’t identify as orange
hah, funny, in Dutch the literal translation of orange is Chinese apple. Curious 🧐
Same in German kind of. Maybe oranges can identify as apples but not the other way around?
It is indeed interesting. Because in the end… sexual intercourse with the booty is still a high tier sin in Islam. Even if the couple is heterosexual.
I wonder what her Imam would say to that. I haven’t heard of a Muslim sect that accepts transgender people under their chosen gender. But maybe they are out there, if anyone knows of one I’d like to know more.
In Iran, gender reassignment is legal, and they’ll even change the birth certificate to match, from what I learned a decade ago.
Homosexuality, however, is a capital offense, so many gay people are pressured to transition.
Some conservative societies seem to have the attitude that it’s better to go from one role with rigid expectations to another than it is to fail to meet the expectations of your original role.
They had the same thing going here in Apartheid-South Africa.
Oh I see, I did not expect that. Thank you!
I wonder what her Imam would say to that.
Heaven forbid… are you implying that Muslim people perhaps aren’t a brainwashed monolith that simply accepts anything spoken by those in authority?
Say it isn’t so!
I’m not sure in which direction your sarcasm is actually going there.
I wouldn’t say they are a monolith, with all those different sects and the fatwas where you basically have to choose which person or group of muftis you trust to issue binding ones.
On the point of brainwashing… well depends on how you define it, I’d say. I think all Religion at its core is supposed to influence your thinking profoundly and most religious people are brought up into their belief system. What is just socialisation and what is brainwashing I don’t know how to distinguish.
Not an expert but for one example you could read the story of Maryam Khatoon Molkara https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara
Very interesting, thank you
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I can’t figure out which part of this story you doubt so I have to assume you’ve never met a trans person or a Muslim.
Probably that a Muslim can both be open to trans people and wear a hijab at the same time.
Tbh is much easier to reconcile than you’d think.
Right, so they’ve never met a Muslim person (or I guess only met the much more rare ultra conservative kind)
Stop destroying prejudices against Muslims! How can you show them to be self confident and intelligent people that don’t need a white savior to explain the world to them?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m still very against conservative Muslims, as much as I am against conservative Christians, ultra-orthodox Jews etc…
But it’s clear that there’s nuance, so like one can be a Christian and also be accepting of gays and trans people, one can be the same while believing in Islam. The ones I can’t stand are those that use their preferred book to put themselves on a pedestal and be terrible to other people, but this trait is not limited to one specific religion, or even to religion itself.
So in other words, we are people like everyone else.
Half of my family is Muslim. I’m currently partnered with the trans alliance in my city to build their new housing co-op… I’m well versed in both sides of this and what’s stated above didn’t happen LoL. It’s a fairytale or as known in the Muslim community… teqqiyah.
Crazy how you want me to believe your story and not theirs
This isn’t too far fetched. I recently saw a video of a woman who is Muslim explaining why she personally wouldn’t take her hijab off in front of a trans woman. Which is the opposite of the op story
BUT… it’s obvious that figuring out how trans women fit into their religious beliefs would be a discussion among Muslim women. Just like Christianity, there are going to be different interpretations, person to person even, of what is ok and not. Seems to me like this would actually be a really easy way for a woman to show her support to a friend.
My op was removed LoL. I guess you’re not allowed to introduce reality into these fairytales. Half of my family is Muslim, this is absolutely a fairytale LMFAO.
You’re not happening.
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This users comments seem to have a habit of turning into a “.”
Weird, so here’s their comment preserved
Wow they sure are a chicken shit with the consequences of their comments.
Well, most of them appear to have a favorable rating so I don’t know about that.
Either it’s a privacy thing or they’re posting propaganda of some sort and then once they’ve reached enough people they edit the comment.
I’m choosing to go with the former. Not because I agree with their comment (don’t know where I stand on the issue, just know it isn’t my business), but because lemmy seems to be a place where users value privacy.
Edit: Holy shit I’m a liar. I don’t what I was seeing a few minutes ago. I was dead wrong.
.
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That’s a beautiful story. Love it.
Things that didn’t happen for $100, Ryan.
Who the fuck is Ryan
I dunno it was just a random name. Guess I should have kept it more uniform by using, “Alex” instead.
Sounds made up.
Love it!!!
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😂😂😂😂
