Thinking about this because of a greentext I saw earlier complaining about OF models.
It feels like a lot of the stigma surrounding sex work in the modern day (that doesn’t just boil down to misogyny/gender norms/religion) is based on the fact that selling intimate aspects of one’s self places a set value on something that many see as sacred; something that shouldn’t have monetary value.
Not to say anything about the economic validity of a society without currency, but I think that, hypothetically, if that were to exist, sex work would be less stigmatized since this would no longer be a factor. Those engaged in sex work would be more likely to be seen as doing it because it’s something they are good at/enjoy, and less because it’s an “easy” way to make money, as some think. It would also eliminate the fear of placing set value on social, non sex-work related intimacy (not that those fears were well-founded to begin with).
It wouldn’t really be “sex work” if they weren’t doing it in exchange for something would it?
Yes, we have currency as a placeholder for trading goods directly but people who perform sex acts for other goods like drugs are just as stigmatized and no currency was involved.
And if people are just having sex with a fun of it then it’s not sex work either, it’s just sex, which is less stigmatized now then it was 30 years ago but it still has a stigma attached to it, otherwise slurs like “skank” and “slut” wouldn’t exist.True, but there are more aspects to sex work than just exchanging sex for something else. Creating pornography, for instance, is something some people already choose do just for fun, even without economic incentive.
And making porn is stigmatized. That’s why 99% of the porn made “just for fun” is intended to never see the light of day by anyone but the people making it.
Really, I’m not directly sure what your argument/belief/whatever is here in this post.
If there’s no exchange or barter, then there’s no sex work. The stigma behind sex work is that you’re selling your body to someone for a price tag, and if you weren’t getting paid you otherwise wouldn’t be doing it with that particular person. In other words, if you aren’t getting compensation out of it, you’re just like anyone else with a tinder account.
Huh? Are you just talking about like a girlfriend?
I wanted to disagree with this, but I actually think you make a rather compelling argument.
The stigma with sex work is that you’re having sex with someone because you want paid, and otherwise wouldn’t be having sex with that person.
If there was no need for money or an exchange for goods and you wanted to have sex with a bunch of different people, we already have that in today’s society. It’s a tinder user.
It’s also related to sex being a “special” or “sacred” act. If it was just something that could be potentially dangerous by resulting in STDs or unwanted pregnancy, like say, driving your car can be potentially dangerous by resulting in accidents and death, then no stigma would exist. But people give it this special character beyond any other human activities, and put it on a pedestal essentially.
Without that pedestal, a delivery driver delivering to someone they don’t like, for the money, is just … their job. Sex being a job is just … a job a person can have. Why make it special?
People basically want to put the pussy on a pedestal, and you don’t really need to be doing that. It doesn’t actually make any sense, it’s just tradition for some folks. Who then want other people to follow their tradition too.
I don’t think you’d have prostitution in a currencyless society. They wouldn’t be prostitutes at that point.
You don’t need currency for it to be prostitution. Prostitution is exchanging sex for goods, services or currency.
There are more forms of sex work than just prostitution, though. Porn, sex surrogacy, etc. People can find those rewarding outside monetary incentive.
What?
A prostitute that isn’t paid…
Isn’t really a prostitute are they?
There can be other forms of compensation in currencyless societies, so not necessarily. There’s also just the personal fulfillment aspect, which is supposed to be the main thing motivating people to work in this hypothetical.
Edit: Other forms of compensation would re-introduce ethical questions, so that’s probably a bad suggestion. It would have to be a post-scarcity society, as others have pointed out.
There’s also just the personal fulfillment aspect,
Yeah, that’s the reason lots of people have sex for no money…
Like, if there’s no money changing hands, it’s not a free prostitute, it’s just someone willing to have sex with you
It doesn’t make any sense to still call them a prostitute.
It does if they formally define it as their career path and treat it as such.
Sex work is more than just having sex with people for fun. There’s layers, specializations, and skill to it. Not all of it is strictly physical. Someone might want to just go on a date after their spouse passed away, for instance. Handling that situation requires a lot of emotional maturity and your skill in those situations improves with experience.
Edit: better examples would be sex surrogacy or porn creation.
So. In your eyes…
Are they having sex with everyone that asks?
Or are they only having sex with people they want to for no money, like literally every other human?
Because the more you talk, the more it’s feeling like you want a society with public sex slaves.
If there’s no sex, why are you calling them sex workers? In your example, it’s just sympathy dates?
Seriously, none of what you’re saying makes sense. And I know this is a sub for ideas that aren’t thought out… But still bro
Other commenter is right, I was thinking more things like creating pornography or sex surrogacy, things that people would find fulfilling and choose to do irrespective of what incentives may or may not be on offer, and would qualify as more traditional “work”.
things that people would find fulfilling and choose to do irrespective of what incentives may or may not be on offer
Again, people already do that for free…
Just with people they choose to.
So either you’re advocating for sex slaves who feel obligated to do so with anyone, or it’s just still normal sexual/romantic activities.
I don’t agree, I think it’s possible to compartmentalize certain sexual activities as not romantic and also not obligation-based, while still being fulfilling and work-related in a post-scarcity society. Like helping clients overcome sexual insecurity or barriers with sex surrogacy, for instance.
So instead of being a ‘whore’ for money, Jane can be a ‘whore’ for a meal? Or a whore for a new dining set?
Unless we are in a post scarcity world there will be ‘currency’ even if it’s not ‘money’.
Anything that made sex transactional would just be more of the same old shit we see today.
True, it would have to be post-scarcity to be ethical then.
Well, this is the weirdest shit I’ve ever read.
There’s evidence for this.
Trans priestesses attended temples in Mesopotamia and were very highly regarded.
People who have sex with people just because they enjoy it already exist. It’s not new and it won’t meaningfully increase just because a society becomes currencyless.
Without an economic incentive, sex workers will stop existing entirely. It won’t be work, and they won’t have any need to do it. They won’t be compelled to have sex with you just because you have money now. There will still be people at a bar, club, or whatever who will have sex with someone they like for little or no reason, but again, that’s not new.
Maybe you’re right, but I also think that depends on the idea that other aspects of sex work beyond just sex for money wouldn’t be fulfilling to anyone without incentive. Creating pornography, for instance. Maybe that’s true in an “all work is degrading” type of way. Maybe it’s just semantics around the word “work”.
You’re looking at this as an economics issue. But I think it’s a fundamentally a biological or evolutionary artifact. Evolutionary biology has intraspecific competition for access to mates to mating opportunities as a driver for change.
Organisms work to prevent the resource from being exploited just like water, habitats, space, etc. It’s other women that would lose if access to mating opportunities are tied with monetary transactions, and a few would benefit. Minimizing prostitution helps the female of the species be more selective about their mates, and increases the “value” of their interactions.
a lot of the stigma surrounding sex work in the modern day (that doesn’t just boil down to misogyny/gender norms/religion) is based on the fact that selling intimate aspects of one’s self places a set value on something that many see as sacred
The fact that most of the times the stigma only clings to the person selling and not the person buying makes me think that this is actually a negligible part of the stigma.
There are absolutely individuals who shame those who buy these things (think those who make fun of OF subscribers), but overall I would say you’re right.
I think a lot of that is the fact that sex workers are more public-facing than their clients, making them targets for stigma.
Interesting thought. I think most issues stem from bigot assholes who consume the produce but are not allowed to due to their background/upbringing/social “norms”. And those within their normative set not willing to provide, because of the same background/upbringing/social context.
Also, w/o currency there will be other forms of compensation, like a certain amount of work time, or… (p.e.) a handful of apples… due for a certain set of services.
Additionally there is always a percentage of plain idiots who would socially not be able to ascertain this kind of services w/o paying, and these seem to need to demonize the servicer to feel better about themselves.
Sry if I busted this comment, brain is fried after work.
So like… cut her lawn for sexors?
It really depends on the culture of the area, but yeah overall it’d probably be less stigmatized on average. It would certainly be stigmatized though—some people forget that many people consider sexual acts in general (that others can see, like posting pictures on the Internet, porn work, etc.) wrong in the first place. A lot of people online don’t interact with these people a lot—not necessarily because they ‘don’t touch grass’ but because these are often the people who chose not to be active in social media. When you consider that they see a woman posting a steamy picture of herself online as wrong, it makes sense why.
Many people have grown up with a very conservative (sexuality wise, at least) mindset, and that’s just the way they were taught to see things.
I think that because of that, it’s not unlikely that a large portion of people would still see person doing these things, even if not for monetary gain, as “sluts” or something similar.
