Come to think of it, the Jedi are kinda dicks, they prevented anakin becoming a master despite his obvious talented skills in saber combat and his power in the force.
Not to mention, lore wise they let mundi have relations with his family where as it would’ve been a kick out for anakin.
Lastly, the jedi were sorta arrogant for thinking that nothing was wrong or that they were perfect despite having literal counterarguments from rebellious masters, Qui Gonn being a good example of somebody smelling the bullshit that the jedi were involved in.
So my fellow sith lords and jedi knights, what say you?
No. “Master” Jedi are in control of their emotions to the point where they don’t, for example, genocide a tribe, or kill their secret wife. They also objected to a power hungry politician interfering with their internal operations, and it turns out they were right about both people.
The Jedi failed their duty to the Republic by becoming isolated from the actual people and not addressing the corruption that had overtaken its leadership, partly in their desire to follow proper protocol and an appearance of objectivity, like in allowing slavery to flourish on Tattoine which wasn’t in Republic space.
Don’t think about that lesson too much.
Also, the thing I hate absolutely the most about Star Wars is that the “fans” don’t know shit about Star Wars, and it’s not that deep.
The Jedi order is 15% vague Eastern Philosophy that George Lucas half-remembered. 75% of cannon events trying to ret-con this philosophy into the media. And 10% of fan wishful thinking.
They barely do anything in the prequels to give motive to Anikin’s rebellion. The only times it’s seriously covered in the Disney cannon is a few episodes of Clone Wars where the council abandons Asoka, and some plot-lines that were teased in a canceled show.
The Jedi code teaching students that emotions are dangerous, is about as useful as teaching abstinence in sex ed.
Stop teaching people to ignore attachments and focus on dealing with them in a healthy way instead.
He clearly proved that he wasn’t ready to be a master - it’s not like a martial arts rank that you mostly just get because you’re skilled, they also want you to be able to embody the ideals they stand for (flawed as they may be).
They certainly could have trained him better, but that makes them idiots, not assholes. But first and foremost, their most important failure was not detecting that Palpatine was a sith.
Mundi had a special exemption because his species was going extinct, and it was always supposed to be about attachment anyway - it’s plausible that Mundi was able to produce offspring without personal attachment. Anakin could never have done it like that.
Martial arts ranks aren’t even all about skill. Typically getting to a black belt or equivalent is done by skill demonstration but raising ranks after that is more community involvement, school upkeep, teaching, etc.
i think the fact he was turned so easily proves he shouldnt have been trained to the extent he was. that single failure caused the eventual death of millions
Yeah, the jedi were wrong, but the facts really point to “they were wrong to be so lenient”. Sure, if they’d let him become a master he might have had a bit more loyalty. But anakin was already too enslaved to his emotions, and even if they made him a master and condoned his relationship with padme, something else would be the spark that sideous used to turn him.
He trained from what, 8 years old until 20? They could have taught him to deal with emotions healthily instead of just saying “emotions bad, Jedi good”. There’s plenty of real-life examples of troubled people becoming healthy with the love and support of their family
Yes, but if all Jedi are trained the way described, do any of the masters know how to deal with emotions?
They don’t, because it’s a fundamental systemic flaw of the Order. Someone like Anakin was innevitable, and those people show up regularly within the knights. Dooku and Ventress had similar problems, and that’s just major figures contemporary to Anakin. The Inquisitors were others with similar issues, and even they are just from the small fraction of Jedi that survived the innitial purge.
It’s really not a coincidence that the most well adjusted Jedi spent so much time away from the Order.
So yes, they are all assholes.
add in the fact that palpatine told anakin to execute count dooku when anikan didnt want to, saying its not the jedi way, then later on sees a master jedi decide to execute palpatine. he saw their hypocrisy
He was turned by the guy who turned Count Dooku, who was already an old man when it happened. Anakin never stood a chance.
Yeah he should just have turned off, on his mother…
I’m with OP 😅.That’s a good plot, but also ridiculous, transposed on a IRL situation.
They’re a religion, of course they’re assholes.
Not to mention the Jedi take younglings for training while the Sith simply wait for them to make a choice.
100%
The Jedi weren’t “good” they were the absent of evil and that will never be enough for a just society because evil will exploit it eventually.
Yeah the point of the prequels was that they weren’t innocent. They had grown complacent, and solely focused on tradition instead of thinking about the actual Jedi values. Anakin was right, but didn’t know the way to fix it and instead followed the sith.
He didn’t follow the Sith so much reject the Jedi as not good so went down the only path to gain power to do the greatest good he could think of: save Padme
Like, there’s obviously real world parrells, but when the “good” option actively prevents people from doing good in the pursuit of perfect balance, some people will go to the side that doesn’t care how you use your own personal power. Because you can rationalize that it won’t corrupt you.
yea, the jedi were ideological conservatives.
and that meme where Qui-Gon jinn brings back both Anakin and his mom instead of just Anakin?
is a very legitimate point.
the Jedi council chose to keep a jedi’s mother in slavery instead of reuniting their family, freedom which would have come at a truly insignificant cost to the council.
If you want to get all philosophical (which is probably a bit too far, it’s George Lucas after all), you could make the argument that the downfall of the Republic is an example of a complacent, non-responsive governmental elite failing to react or even just recognize obvious problems.
The Jedi are just warrior monks and symptomatic for that. They didn’t bring her with them, because they don’t care about people that much. They are above the population and act more like demigods.
this is exactly my argument.
I completely agree with everything you’ve written and I even suspect George does, despite his disinclination to discuss it.
a complacent aristocracy hoisted by their own failing traditions and impotent bureaucracy.
I’ve always considered, seperate to this larger discussion, that the Jedi are saying one thing and believing another uncritically. They want to bring balance to the force… By eliminating the sith.
Balance. A state of equilibrium. Notoriously not very well known for existing in a system where one of two elements has been removed.
“Only a sith deals in absolutes”. Complete unthinking hipocracy in the name of the light.
I think if you only watch the original trilogy, Jedi are the good, pure, saviors of the galaxy and rebels of the established order and the sith are evil overlords who rule by their own design.
When you watch the original you see how the Jedi appear good and balanced, but over the trilogy become less focused on ruling by laws and more on feelings. Clearly bypassing their own laws as it suits those in charge.
Subsequent tv series continuously adds to that mindset that the Jedi were flawed, and sometimes outright dangerous.
I always saw the Jedi assuming the chosen one myth was about the Jedi becoming the absolute rulers so egotistical, they were destined to fail.
And as flawed as the new trilogy is, it follows that path, leading to Rey becoming a true balanced force user, neither Jedi or sith. And both have seemingly been destroyed otherwise. So Rey is really the chosen one
“You were supposed to bring balance to the force”
Here’s the prophecy:
Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless. The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire. When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine. A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.
Ultimate balance in the force really seems like it very well could mean “no more Sith and no more Jedi” to me.
Well if it’s like real life yes. Everyone is an asshole.
Being a master isn’t just about skill, it’s also about wisdom and experience, perhaps even more than skill. It’s perfectly reasonable that they wouldn’t want to elevate him to that rank yet, given his behavior.
+++ They fucked up many things during the clone wars/prequel period of time, and suffered from hubris and arrogance no doubt. But they were right about that one thing.
Everyone in that story is basically an asshole.
They’re all somewhat sympathetic. But yeah, the Sith suck, but so do the Jedi. This was also kind of emphasized in the Acolyte. But even before that, yeah, if you look at the prequels the Jedi were kind of dicks.
Deleted: I hate negativity please just block me. I don’t value or want negative interaction. If there was a way to know who you are, I would and will block you for down voting casual comments and conversation.
Dude, you ok? If downvotes harsh your vibe, yeet them out the window and move to an instance that doesn’t do downvotes. The one I’m on, for example, and I assume others. From my perspective, I have zero downvotes on any comment or post ever.
Blåhaj Lemmy has no downvotes and it’s been surprisingly amazing for my mental health.
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