• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    If I might interject.

    One word mean many thing to not same people.

    Use special word for special job. Special job doers no get dizzy. All know special word mean same thing.

    Special words job help make many people with not same word skill talk gooder.

  • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Yeah, it’s an in-group exclusivity signifier.

    Shame, math is some of the worst at this, everything is named after some guy, so there’s 0 semantic associativity, you either know exactly which Gaussian term they mean, or you are completely clueless even though they just mean noise with a normal distribution.

    edit: Currently in a very inter-disciplinary field where the different mathematicians have their own language which has to be translated back into first software, then hardware. It’s so confusing at first till you spend 30 minutes on wikipedia to realize they’re just using an esoteric term to describe something you’ve used forever.

    • Technus@lemmy.zip
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      7 days ago

      Trying to teach yourself higher math without a textbook is nearly impossible.

      You could try just Googling all the Greek letters and symbols but have fun sifting through the hundred-odd uses of σ for the one that’s relevant to your context. And good fucking luck if it’s baked into an image.

      The quickest way I’ve gotten an intuition for a lot of higher math things was seeing it implemented in a programming language.

      • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        I’ve been learning crypto math the hard way, it’s brutal.

        I’ve found one way that works is to learn about the people, like learn about Gauss’s life and work, it helped give me context and perspective for the random terms.

        • Technus@lemmy.zip
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          7 days ago

          Yeah, it can be really helpful to understand the context and the problems they were trying to solve.

          Like for example, I think a lot of pop-sci talk about Special/General Relativity is missing huge chunks of context, because in reality, Einstein didn’t come up with these theories out of thin air. His breakthrough was creating a coherent framework out of decades of theoretical and experimental work from the scientists that came before him.

          And the Einstein Field Equations really didn’t answer much on their own, they just posed more questions. It wasn’t until people started to find concrete solutions for them that we really understood just how powerful they were.

          • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            GR is fascinating, because it’s something you actually can spend a long, long time completely failing to observe.

            Basically until you either try to understand galaxies, or you’ve got a pesky drift issue with your satellites, you don’t need to think about it much at all. Well I suppose if you want to understand why gravity is sometimes weird but you can just ignore that for a really long time.

    • MBM@lemmings.world
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      7 days ago

      Gotta love Dirichlet boundary conditions (the function has to have this value), Neumann boundary conditions (the derivative has to have this value) and Cauchy boundary conditions (both).

      On the other hand, there’s a bunch of things that are so abstract that it’s difficult to give them a descriptive name, like rings, magmas and weasels

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      6 days ago

      realize they’re just using an esoteric term to describe something you’ve used forever.

      Programming is applied math. Mathematicians say “theory of mass service”, programmers say “schedulers”. Well, it’s “theory of mass service” in Russian, but in English it is “queue theory”.

    • dustycups@aussie.zone
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      7 days ago

      I really like the naming of things after their discoverers/inventors. I’m picturing a mathematician getting upset:

      “How dare you speak about Friedrich Gauss like that. He dragged that universities astronomy department out of the stone age, even after the death of his first wife…”

      The history of the people helps me with remembering the concepts.

      Disclaimer: I am NOT a mathematician.

      • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        My argument is not against naming things after the discoverer, though in engineering while we have some of this (Heaviside comes to mind), most other concepts have a semantic value so even unknown terms can be mapped fairly easily.

        My main argument is that math is taught very poorly, if we had taught math as the history of math in school, this would be far more meaningful, we understand it as a story and each piece in the puzzle an event that brought it about.

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        He said it’s hard to see through the style of their writing because they use fancy language related to their field of work and it causes a vicious cycle of other people doing the same while excluding normal people.

  • yesman@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    In defense of jargon:

    coming up with new ideas and expressing them to others requires new vocabulary. You can’t simply say things in “plain English” especially when you want to communicate with peers.

    This is why academia is so often refereed to as a discipline; you must train yourself in new ways of thinking. Making it accessible to the layperson is the job of scientific communicators, not scientists at large.

    And it’s not like this is a unique issue with acedemia, every organization I’ve ever participated in had special vocabulary if it was necessary or not.

    • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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      7 days ago

      Many professionals (not only scientists) are really bad at crafting sentences and texts, even without jargon.

      I get jargon, but even if you replace all of the jargon in a typical paper with simple words, the writing style is often horrible. It’s often weirdly repetitive, has fluff-pieces and empty phrases, and just doesn’t get to the point. (I’ll ignore the inherent worthlessness of many articles here, since this is a symptom of funding policy)

      I don’t expect a scientific article to be understandable for someone outside the field, but do yourself the disfavour and ask a random scientist, what it is they’re actually doing and to explain it in simple terms. Most can’t. And that says to me, that these people never learned (or were taught) how to actually boil a concept down to its essence. And that I think is pretty bad.

      As an example, two scientists from different fields could work on almost the same problem from different angles, but they would never know that if they talked to each other, because they are unable to express their work in a way the other person can understand.

      • The_v@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Academia is usually about minutiae, not concepts. Sometimes they get so hyperfocus in small areas that they are completely unable to give a general summary of what they are doing in the bigger picture. To do so would require them to understand things outside of their very narrow field of study.

      • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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        5 days ago

        exactly, i’ve noticed some people on youtube can be REALLY good at this, like Your Dinosaurs Are Wrong for example. Just introduce your jargon the first time it’s used and put up a little explanation every time afterward.

      • huginn@feddit.it
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        6 days ago

        Every single word in the original post clarifies more than plain English. It is more specific and has better nuance than a plain translation.

        That doesn’t make it a useful explanation because the audience of the statement is not the in-group using the jargon.

        One part of my daily job is translating “technical” into “manager”. The translation always loses fidelity to the original. Jargon exists because it’s useful, not because there’s a deliberate attempt to keep others out. Some will then use it as a shibboleth but that does not mean it’s original purpose was such.

        For what it’s worth: that’s true of all translations. I’ve done real time translation from Italian into English and it’s always missing the nuance of the original. I’ve read the divine comedy in English and Italian and the English is always missing the context and nuance.

        Language is an abstract representation of concepts and never maps faithfully.

  • ornery_chemist@mander.xyz
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    7 days ago

    inhales

    Complex 1a was prepared according to well-known synthetic procedures. The reduction potential of the complex was increased due to the nephelauxetic expansion of the occupied FMOs induced by photolytic epimerization of the auxiliary tetrahydrophosphazolidine sulfide ligand to enable a strongly σ-donating dihaptic coordination mode.

    translation: we made molecule 1a, we shouldn’t need to tell you how, it’s obvious, lmao, git gud. the molecule became less likely to gain extra electrons because shining light on it made one of its weird-ass totally-not-bullshit parts wiggle around a bit so that it could bind more strongly to the metal atom through two of its own adjacent atoms, making the metal atom’s relevant electrons floofier.

  • Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    It’s something that people, in least in my field of microbiology, have been recently aware of and are trying to correct. The problem is not just an in-group signifier, since everyone, even experts, finds the author insufferable and difficult to understand

  • OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    I dated a girl who acted like writing / talking like that made her better / smarter than other people. She got off on the elitism. I’m no academic slouch, but my philosophy is if you can’t break it down in basic terms that anyone can understand, then you don’t understand it enough yourself.

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      7 days ago

      I could break stuff down to you but I won’t because I have shit to do and there’s textbooks. Also your eyes would glaze over 2% of the way in. So in that sense, I can’t, because I can’t make you actually want to understand it. Best I can do is hand-wave and rely on you not understanding why my explanation falls short of actually being one, making you think you understood something.

      Talking shop and obfuscation are not the same thing but are generally indistinguishable for the uninitiated. I guess what I’m mostly miffed about is the implication that’s going on in OP’s erudite thesis and your anecdote: That people who talk about stuff you don’t understand do it to exclude. Maybe, you know, stuff is just complicated and needs years of study and practice to understand. It’s not a status thing, someone with a Ph.D in chemistry will have quite a task ahead of them understanding what hair stylists are talking about when talking shop about chemicals unless they themselves happen to specialise in that area. Now try explaining conditioner chemistry to a philosopher, instead, it’s probably hopeless.

    • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      I would go so far as to say that knowing and understanding something is only half of the issue. The other half is being able to clearly convey it to others. And that’s where a lot of people (myself included) fall short.

      • naught101@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        I think any scientist should able to convey at least the high level concepts that they’re working on at the level that a smart 12th-grader can follow. If you can’t do that, I think that’s a sign that you’re probably not thinking about your work very clearly. Being able to distill things and context-switch back to a birds-eye view of your work is critical for knowing what direction you’re heading in.

        (I say this from the perspective of a climate scientist - our field has a pretty active public/lay conversation and lots of science comma, but I think the concept still applies to other sciences, and social sciences.)

  • mlg@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    The loser research paper vs the chad blog tutorial

    ^ literally anything related to buffer overflow attacks lol

  • uis@lemm.ee
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    6 days ago

    Reminds about GCC wiki.

    What does reload do?

    Good question. The what is still understandable. Don’t ask about the how.

  • ALostInquirer@lemm.ee
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    7 days ago

    Is there an AcademicDictionary in the vein of Urban Dictionary for all the jargon and filler patterns?