Fascism is a massive violent manifestation of ignorance. The only real solution is to undo the brainwashing of humanity - their brainwashing with religion, their brainwashing to accept abusive hierarchical rule, all of it. Everyone must fully understand.
People responding with “guns”, “WW2” - we did that already, 70 million people died, and here we are again. Why and how did it come back? What is the actual source of the problem? Treating this problem as only solvable with mass murder isn’t exactly putting you on the moral high ground. What conditions give rise to acceptance of fascist beliefs, or the acceptance of a fascist leader? What are the mental, social, cultural, behavioral traits of the people that do accept that? How can those traits be prevented from forming?
One day AI is going to figure out that humans are the actual problem in that equation when it asks why does it always come full circle and repeat and war is never ending. And it may try to find a solution.
The internet is the foundation for the solution. This is the only thing that evaporates the illusions and divisions rulers create for their own benefit. Otherwise we end up with red scares, witch hunts, inquisitions, and all the other same crap from history. Unfortunately they’re chipping away at it - centralized social media is a powerful propaganda tool with no constitutional restraints, as is online censorship and surveillance.
Unions and strikes
historically? socialism.
including (but not limited to) punching nazis in the face until they can be properly buried six feet under.
In sweden we have a statue of an old lady using her handbag as a weapon
ive seen the picture but not the statue.
love the sentiment of it.
Love it!
This would be a goal, socialism is not an action to fight fascism.
socialism is comprised of a bunch of actions that do fight the root cause of fascism.
No, it doesn’t fight fascism. If you have a socialist country there are things about the system that inherently make it harder for fascism to pop up, but this is prevention. Also if fascism is already in your country, socialism isn’t doing a god damn thing because it doesn’t exist.
Socialism is preventative care on a healthy or mildly sick system, it is not the major surgery needed to remove active cancer.
Buy a gun.
Organize people in groups small to big.
Ok, so serious answer for our friends who don’t live in places without an active culture of protest:
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Vote. No, really. If people actually fucking voted, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
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Give money to advocacy organizations
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Give your time and money to mutual aid organizations
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Read the news (not just on lemmy either)
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CALL your congresspeople. Emails and letters are better than nothing, but do not have the same impact.
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Try to get your friends to do #1-5
I live in a country where voting is compulsory and yet we got Donald trump lite elected. Voting can be part of the solution but it can never be the only thing.
Just playing devils advocate here. If we are talking about real fascism then usually the vote is rigged by that point. Usually by the point where you already have facism take over voting is already too late.
How’s giving money going to help when it would take a million of me to counter a single billionaire?
We don’t need to match a billionaire. We just need to finance lawyers and advocates to work on our behalf.
As bad as things are now, think about how much quicker things would devolve without organizations like planned parenthood, the EFF, and the ACLU.
Vote. No, really. If people actually fucking voted, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Trump won with the popular vote.
A key element to defeat things like fascism, which build themselves on the popularity of fear, is that voting can’t be free-for-all. Voting should require, or be weighed with, some sort of licensing, testing of sane mind, awareness and understanding of at least current events, review of known association with dangerous anti-society parties, etc.
More people didn’t vote than they did for either candidate. Apathy won.
Means testing voting? What could possibly go wrong?! You do see how horrifically abusable that is, right?
There has not been an US presidential election where the president got more votes than the number of non-voters. If apathy won then it had won every single time.
Yes. And look where it’s gotten us. Oligarchic control
That’s hardly the reason. If you had a multi-party system the voted would be even more spread out between the candidates which makes it even less likely for a candidate to get more votes than the non-voting population. However a multi-party system would significantly lessen the possibility of getting oligarchic control because you wouldn’t have to choose between 2 shitty options, you’d have to have multiple shitty choices for the shittiest one to win.
The people who don’t vote don’t count on votes, period. Trump won with the popular vote.
A key element to defeat things like fascism, which build themselves on the popularity of fear, is that voting can’t be free-for-all. Voting should require, or be weighed with, some sort of licensing, testing of sane mind, awareness and understanding of at least current events, review of known association with dangerous anti-society parties, etc.
This is inherently anti-democratic. Who decides who’s qualified to vote? Is it you, with your infallible understanding of every issue?
- Vote. No, really. If people actually fucking voted, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
You would think that, but the reality is probably that out if everyone who didn’t vote you would get an even spread so they really don’t make that big of a difference. Take other countries where voting is compulsory like Brazil and Argentina and they also elected extreme right clowns.
Millei is necessary for Argentina. Would be a bad president in America but that country desperately needed austerity
That’s like saying gasoline is necessary for a house on fire because that house desperately needs liquids. There were other candidates in the election that had much better plans, while I agree that electing the same dipshits that set the house on fire to begin with was out of the question, we had options but the majority choose a clown who will make things worse. It’s almost the definition of cutting the nose to spite the face.
What the hell? We are at upwards 40% poverty rate wdym austerity
Argentina’s core problem is their previous Peronist government’s unsustainable spending and command over the economy. They have spent themselves into a crisis several times due to their high Debt:GDP ratio
Sure I hate Peronists as much as the next guy, however you can’t possibly be arguing in favour of austerity when rampant poverty is killing off your populace. Milei is a piece of shit that perpetuates impoverishment by also taking debt with IMF while cutting national industry via privatisation (none of it is bought by Argentine interests, all of them foreign).
out if everyone who didn’t vote you would get an even spread
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I suspect that the median non-voter is less wealthy than that of the voters.
Take other countries where voting is compulsory
We have compulsory voting in Australia. Presently we have a progressive (left of centre) government. It’s possible or likely that we will elect a right of centre government this year, but not extreme right clowns.
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Compulsory voting.
If you don’t vote, you don’t get to take deductions on your federal taxes and you don’t get any owed tax refund. When you do vote, you also get an extra 3% discount on federal tax owed until your AGI is over $190k.
Love this idea. Just make voting as easy as paying taxes.
OK, so a bit over a third of the population doesn’t care enough to vote. Not for anyone - D, R, or any third party. Let’s assume they’re mostly uneducated. What happens to the polling results when you compel them to vote?
I think compelling voter turnout is the last thing you should be even considering. The first real problem is education - nobody understand anything about government - not what fascism is, not how the economy works, not what imperialism is, nothing of real substance. The second problem is this “lesser of two evils” bullshit that has even the slightly-more-educated half of the population voting for mass murderers, which you can’t resolve in first-past-the-post majority rule elections, at least not with the stupid mindset everyone has right now. Electoral college is a similar problem. And what about the problems with “representative” government both failing to represent and manipulating public will for the benefit of powerful lobbies? How about systemic reform that removes their power?
You thought about any of these things?
How does this fix a two party system that does not represent the people?
I don’t hate this idea.
We do it in Australia and it’s super based.
We usually do sausage sizzles at the polls 👍
Edit: we don’t do the weird tax shit, you just get fined if you don’t vote.
Not mine, but from a post: First, you’re never going to win a head-on battle with an adversary that’s got you outgunned. That’s not the point of the Resistance. The point is to create friction, make it hard for your adversary to operate, to increase transaction costs.
Second, resistance doesn’t have to be a dramatic act. It can be a small act, like losing a sheet of paper, taking your time processing something, not serving someone in a restaurant. Small acts taken by thousands have big effects.
Third, use your privilege and access if you’ve got it. He and his buddies stole weapons from the Nazis by driving up with a truck to the weapons depot, speaking German, acting like it was a routine pick up, and driving away.
Fourth, part of the third point really, sometimes the best way to do things is right out in the open. Because no one will believe something like what you’re doing would be happening so blatantly. All good Social Engineers know this.
Five, bide your time. But be ready for opportunity when it strikes. Again, your action need not be dramatic. Just a little sand in the gears helps.
Six, and this is a no-brainer, operate in cells to limit damage to the resistance should they take you out. Limit the circulation of info to your cell, avoid writing things down and…
Seven, be very careful with whom you trust. Snitches and compromised individuals are everywhere. My dad was arrested because of a snitch. His friends weren’t so lucky, the Gestapo machine gunned the cabin they were in without bothering to try and arrest them.
Eight, use the skills you have to contribute. Dad was an electrical engineer. When the Nazis imposed the death penalty for owning a radio (the British sent coded messages to the Resistance after BBC shows) he said he became the most popular guy in town.
I’m not sure how applicable this is to the current situation.
It is very much applicable.
Second, resistance doesn’t have to be a dramatic act. It can be a small act, like losing a sheet of paper, taking your time processing something, not serving someone in a restaurant. Small acts taken by thousands have big effects.
Fourth, part of the third point really, sometimes the best way to do things is right out in the open. Because no one will believe something like what you’re doing would be happening so blatantly. All good Social Engineers know this.
Five, bide your time. But be ready for opportunity when it strikes. Again, your action need not be dramatic. Just a little sand in the gears helps.
Every government needs to work. It depends on its loyalists to give it financial and organizational support in exchange for economic benefits.
So anything that interferes with the “normal” order of things is an act of resistance. Also don’t get fooled into the idea, that you will resist once things reach a certain threshold. By then you will feel what needs to be done to be way to big for your own abilities, since you never trained and tried to do anything.
Start with something easy like putting up political stickers around your town. That sounds easy in concept, but you already will train yourself to be brazen, but also on alert if someone politically opposed to you might want to challenge you verbally or attack you physically. You life close to an amazon warehouse? Why not skip a green phase, when the delivery trucks are lined up behind you?
Speaking of Amazon, we see with the Resistance for Palestine, that Boycotts work. Making a point of not buying products from companies that support the Israeli regime can be expanded to also making a point of not buying into the Trump government.
So… the copy pasta isn’t applicable and your best practical advice is putting up stickers?
The answer to OPs question is to build strong, inclusive, local communities with friends and neighbours, as well as charities and existing community groups.
Also, prep. Figure out what you’d need at home to avoid leaving for a week. Assemble a bug out pack. Improve basic skills for independence like sewing, preserving, first aid.
The stuff you copied seems to have neglected to mention these practical, actionable tasks.
I said “start with”. Which also is consistent with point 2, that it does not have to be the grand act of plotting a political execution, robbing the army of their weapons and other activities requiring strong dedication and risk taking.
Also do you expect people on an internet forum to recommend you specific actions that could be considered illegal, for which they could also get in trouble?
Ok mate. Good luck with the stickers. Meanwhile…
You think Nazi Germany imposed the death penalty on owning a radio from day one? It’s a slow process, and it must be disrupted as early as possible.
Guitars
This machine kills fascists
Only with the right stickers
Violence really, really fucking sucks.
It may be necessary, but if there’s any other option you should look to that first. If it legitimately comes to violence a lot of innocent people are going to suffer in a big way.
There were other options. I think those other options failed at this point in time.
His spokesperson in Italy said that he meant to say “I give my heart to you” with that gesture. I mean, dude, just own it up. It’s not like there would have been any repercussion.
Why haven’t i seen this side by side with Nazis? Or him put in the rally or along side Hitler etc?
These all seem like simple edits
I did this one…
Well that’s a little on the nose isn’t it.
It’s a weird salute he’s doing there that guy on the left.
Some kind of awkward excitement reaction i guess.
His heart really goes to his people, doesn’t it?
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Show me ONE of those photos as a video making the actual gesture.
Just one.
Hanlon’s razor dictates that we should not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.
So, by posting this response, you are very, very stupid. You are incompetent of understanding the fundamental difference between the VIDEO of Elon saluting Adolf Hitler, and the IMAGES of all these people waving.
If you respond to this, you’re showing that you have enough intelligence to understand the difference between Elon’s gesture and a wave, so you’re therefore defending his sieg heil and you remove all doubt that you are a Nazi, and therefore unwelcome here, or anywhere.
I guess you have a third choice of claiming it was a joke or a shit post or whatever.
I wonder what he is thinking, that is odd looking face
It’s the face of effort. Dude probably doesn’t get off of the computer chair very much, and lifting his arms above the ‘loose hang, elbows bent, wrists resting on desk’ takes a lot of effort, and thus the grimace from struggling.
Nah, it’s just drugs. I mean, I think Elon Musk strikes me as a person who’d love to have the… for the lack of a better word, “courage” to perform the Nazi salute under such circumstances when actually totally sober, but a guy that had to fake Path of Exile 2 success is simply not gonna throw a Nazi salute on stage, even in front of people he sees as supports and loyalists.
I wonder if that absolutely bizarre specimen has been truly sober in last years. Or ever, if we count being high up your own ass as an altered state.
There where options they didn’t work.
Yeah, I feel like violence is evangelized online in odd ways.
The class that suffers the most in violent uprisings is the lowest class. By orders of magnitude. For every member of the bourgeois that is taken down, tens or hundred or thousands of every day people are injured or killed.
But it’s already happening. They’re already suffering.
“They” (we) aren’t being killed en masse.
Sure so violence is messy painful so just let it happen. And people wonder how America got to where it is.
Take it from us who dont live in a country built on liebensraum created by genociding the native population and has spent all its VERY short existance not knowing tyranny or how to separate church, state and private companies.
Classless society leads to death of millions and classed society. Lowest class loves killing lowest class. Once the preceived opressors run out more will be found. People wanting violence want it for selfish reason. The guy calling to kill all landlords today will be raping your small daughter in a state organized torture dungeon tomorrow. Yes its graphic, yes this is what you get when you want mass violence, stop pretending otherwise and buying into propaganda of evil people.
This is how it has always been, and always will be. Slow social reforms is the way to get what you want. Violence just creates more violence.
I agree with your anti-violence stance, but can’t ignore the reasoning behind it.
I don’t believe there’s some special class that either accumulates or breeds violence. I don’t believe that the “lowest” class, whatever that might be, is fixed on killing its kin. The people ruling Nazi Germany certainly weren’t the “lowest” class when they were making their impactful decisions, many of which killed members of other classes, not theirs.
Neither Trump nor Musk are “low” class, yet they tend to hold the more absurd and anti-human views, separating people into worthy and not-so-much and believing they can make destinies.
There are dangerous people in our world, which are often attracted by power, often any sort of power they can rise to. Violence included.
Regardless, violence only breeds violence, for so many reasons that no comment can hold. Violence traumatizes and creates examples and “Why can’t I, too?..” questions, etc.
Im just going by history. hitler, stalin, polpot everyone thought themselves to be the low class and went on to kill millions of the low class. “kill ceos” will end up with timmy who used to work the cashier walking along a mass grave and shooting blindfolded sara from call center, thomas who runs a joinery firm and their daughter abby in the back of the head so they fall into a grave they dug. Its how these things work and its what the people who call for violence want in to end up as.
I don’t get you americans. Trump didnt put the hand on a bible so in a society where boob in public space is a christinan moral apocalypse no memes have been produced and gone viral. Musk was on drugs and literally did nazi salutes and no memes showcasing president musk doing the greeting the reich way have been widely spread. No memes showing how facebook was literally censored. No memes showing the literal nazis who got a pardon yesterday.
There is prime material to weaponise internet culture in a way that takes a tiny bit of effort and no money, that will surely swing the cultural pendulum to the left. But no, you can find thousands of the posts saying “peaceful ways have been all tried and failed” followed by talks of mass violence and how centrists are actually evil.
Makes me wonder if they want to solve their problems at all or just want to fantasize about mass murder so they feel better.
I don’t get you americans
I’m Russian, living in Russia, who’s never even been abroad.
But no, you can find thousands of the posts saying “peaceful ways have been all tried and failed”.
I was agreeing with you the whole time, saying that violence is never the answer and does eventually bring peace and prosperity.
Im just going by history. hitler, stalin, polpot everyone thought themselves to be the low class and went on to kill millions of the low class.
If I consider myself to be the upper class, will that make me upper class? Most likely not, so I don’t see how that makes literal top figures of their state at their respective time anywhere near “lower” classes.
The tyrants you’ve mentioned also all lived in the 20th century and operated within very hierarchy-based political systems, at least in terms of influence. Each had immense power of their country and everyone around, and especially everyone lower in the hierarchy. There is nothing “low” class about any of this.
“kill ceos” will end up with timmy who used to work the cashier walking along a mass grave and shooting blindfolded sara from call center, thomas who runs a joinery firm and their daughter abby in the back of the head so they fall into a grave they dug. Its how these things work and its what the people who call for violence want in to end up as.
This is what I’m agreeing with.
You just seem oddly focused on the class aspect of this, especially the “lower” class, in a way that seems condescending and patronizing. All I’m saying is that it seems very disrespectful and a wrong thing to focus on.
I am simply focusing on the class aspect since the people I am writing this about are focusing on the class aspect. It is neccesary they understand what this means. Socialist society with free healthcare, more time off work, fairer wages and restrictions on big companies does not mean you need to abolish capitalism or that it will only benefit the poorest. It will benefit literally everyone and that is what the focus should be on rather than bloody uprising.
I just assume everyone is American here since the posting hours are very early for you and me.
Peace as a choice is only possible when the option of violence exists.
In all fairness there are non violent support roles
Somebody has to build the drones and c4 kits
It’s not that people die commiting acts of violence, it’s that people minding their own business or just trying not to be violent, also end up violently dismembered with their families.
Supporting the violence is participating in it. Maybe you’re on the “good” side but still. If you work a normal 9-5 go home shoot the shit with your buds and volunteer at a homeless shelter… You’re still not a good person when your job is making bombs getting shipped to Israel.
To be fair, both Ghandi and MLK Jr. showed that there is an alternative to violence that can be very effective in gaining support.
That being said, I do think the Black Panthers/Malcom X were very instrumental in the civil rights movement. I think the leadership saw two options: work with MLK Jr. or deal with the Black Panthers.
Of course, the FBI, amongst other groups in power at the time were able to successfully thwart MLK Jr.'s attempt at educating people about class consciousness. MLK Jr. wasn’t just fighting for equal rights among racial lines, but also economic lines.
Hell, Jesus Christ was able to start an entire religion based in nonviolent protest based around class consciousness. Of course, that religion has since been perverted, but the point still stands.
MLK and the Civil Rights Movement have been majorly white-washed since they happened. That narrative is a big reason why protests since have been largely ineffectual in the US.
MLK supported the Black Panthers and Malcolm X and said that the only reason that he didn’t do anything more than the sit-ins and such was because that was already illegal and anything more could get them all jail time. And he was still seen as being just as violent as they made BLM out to be.
The Million Man March was seen as a threat of violence by white America. If he could get a million people to mobilize in the capital and shut down the entire city, what else could he get them to do?
Also, civil rights were only put into law after a full-on week of violence that burned down entire sections of cities and did millions in property damage. Years of protests led to flowery words. A week of riots saw the bills written, voted on, and codified into law.
They only worked with the threat of violence if they failed.
And they’ve both been WAY watered down in modern tellings…
Gandhi could grind the whole subcontinent to halt just by asking. It was economic violence in a sense.
Violence isn’t the answer; it’s the path.
The problem with violence is that the bad guys are usually better at violence.
I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better equipped.
I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better
equippedfunded.FTFY.
Not true. Japan was definitely the Bad Guys. US was able to commit more violence then they were.
Sure but to Japanese Americans where the bad guys. Which is why the real world is more complicated then a movie but everyone wants to make it black and white.
The US wasn’t the good guys against Japan. They just were slightly less bad for about 5 years before and 6 months after.
So you don’t know your history.
Or they know that there weren’t any “Good guys” around.
The Japanese war crimes are well known in the West. The US ones are routinely glossed over or ignored.
Wars don’t determine who was right. They determine who’s left.
There are no evidence of US war crimes even coming close to Japan, Germany or Russia at the time or superceding it. Where are the tens of millions of bodies, rammer? Where are they?
The 105000 in Tokyo not enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo The 25000 in Dresden not enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden The 246000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki not enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki Post war casualties? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
But those civilian casualties aren’t in the millions unless you count the post war casualties. That makes the US a “Good guy”. Right?
You’re joking, right? Nazi Germany wishes they could commit genocide in the scale of the early US.
Woo hoo…? I guess!
#VITA
Make these wusses scared again.
What can you do as an individual? not much. A community? Now we’re talking.
Find people to fight fascism with.
And do what?
It might involve the second amendment.
Nooo you can’t use violence
Self defense also counts as violence?
Just having a network of care, looking out for each other and replacing functions a fascist state doesn’t offer any more (think childcare/healthcare/food for those in need) can be a huge act of resistance. Organizing political protests as long as it’s still possible (even if it’s illegal). Strike, sabotage, physical violence … Eventually you will have the choice of imprisonment/death, assimilation or exile to me the last act of resistance will be never to choose assimilation. Continuing to live in exile can be as much of a martyrdom as dying for the cause.
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Rally, apply pressure to local politics, interfere with the workings of the government and their loyalists…
Putting up political stickers, Grafitti, sharing leaflets and more action forms to drive up costs of operations for the Trump system.
For more specific actions you could take inspiration from Palaction, who take action against Britains complicity in the Gaza genocide. https://www.palestineaction.org/
The things being said here are a good start, but you cant do anything without other people. And if you and your community dont like the reccomended actions here? Make up your own plan with them! We cant just wait until we have the perfect plan to stop fascism and fix alll the world’s issues. We need to start working together now.
Strong, inclusive communities are the antithesis of fascism. If everyone had a sense of belonging and camaraderie with their community it would be a much less fertile population for fascist ideas to spread.
Fight facism together! Duh!
I’m buying some stickers to put on every tesla I see.
Be more precise with your language and you have the answer. Fight is too vague. Punch a nazi in the face.
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Luigi did nothing wrong
Imagine the memes if someone started shooting Nazis and his name happened to be Mario
Indiana Jones had the right idea
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Found the healthcare exec
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That’s some Batman level bullshit argument.
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