You’re forgetting some people are idiots, especially those “better than others” who do crap like this.

You might be surprised at how much corn, grains, and other non-meat stuff there is in cat food. Particularly in cheap dry kibble that nobody typically bats an eye at someone feeding to their cat.

This conversation just seems so weird to me. The number of people who feed their cats anything similar to what they’d be eating in the wild is minuscule.

Meat isn’t some magic substance, biological chemical reactions turns grass into cows. That you think you can’t take those nutrients and make them bioavailable to an obligate carnivore is absurd. Ever seen an impossible burger?

And if you think the cruelty stems from the idea that cats wouldn’t like it, I gotta say. I have my cat on an expensive grain free meat heavy diet. And I know for a fact that he goes crazy for the cheap shitty corn based purina kibble. He has busted into other people’s homes to steal kibble from their cats.

So is it cruel for me to feed him a more nature based diet when it’s clear he prefers corn based trash?

I don’t see any reason why a functional vegan cat food couldn’t exist.

Vegans are fine, it are those that enforce/demand it from others that are radicals, all radicals are lunatics.

Im no vegan, and was originally convinced that giving cats vegan food was animal abuse, and am still sure its best for cats to eat meat But really, seeing so much people just saying ‘vegans are hysteric/lunatic/cultist’ without any more reflection gave me a weird vibe, like it’s the exact same rethoric used against any progressist idea It got me thinking, like I think I disagree with vegans on the vegan cat food thing but people are being so mean to vegans and tolerant to power abuse, i’d rather be on the vegan side

You get that from anywhere with a chamber that echos well enough. There’s the folks who don’t have kids or want them, and then there’s the anti-natalists who call the people who have children breeders and their kids crotchspawn. There’s the Christians and the Religious Right. Jews and Zionists. List goes on.

Caring about animal abuse is cultish behavior?

Yeah…and entirely unsurprising.

I think this is showing that about 70% of the people on here are incapable of reconsidering their positions on something.

To me thats upsetting, but then again lemmy.world is the low hanging fruit of the fediverse. Other servers would never have picked this fight to begin with.

You missed the point of the post.

This goes beyond the c/vegan issue; it is addressing systematic lemmy issues between admins, moderators, and users.

This isn’t about catfood, it’s about moderation.

This is not the topic at hand

https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/

Benevo Cat foods contain all the nutrients an adult cat needs, including a wide range of vitamins (including A, B, D, E, K), essential fatty acids and taurine, without the need for slaughterhouse meat. Although obligate carnivores in the wild, domestic cats still need nutrients they would normally source from prey. Thankfully Benevo Cat contains all those nutrients in a bioavailable kibble.

Benevo Cat is a professional cat food, created by Benevo in 2005, formulated and checked by independent animal nutritionists to meet the AAFCO(USA) and FEDIAF(Europe) guidelines for animal nutrition.

We’ve had safe and healthy variants of vegan cat food for 20 years. Trying to elevate the question to animal abuse speaks entirely to personal ignorance.

Don’t be sorry about the cats, be sorry you missed the main topic of the post.

I was banned from /r/grindr for suggesting it’s ok for trans people to use it. It’s legitimately one of the most blatantly, unapologetically terrible mods I’ve ever seen, and it’s just him.

I’m personally of the opinion that if a community is poorly moderated, you should just make a new community that is better aligned to the level of moderation users actually want and not to rely on a centralized admin team. They should really just be preventing serious abuse, like grooming, and provide support and advice to mods.

Ultimately its not sustainable and gives Admins too much centralized power to determine to that level what is and isn’t appropriate mod behavior. I get that what you experienced is generally dickish behavior, but that can easily spin out of control when it relies on admin judgement calls like that.

It’s not just a diet thing, it’s a matter of animal abuse.

I don’t doubt that there are options out there for people that want to feed their pets a vegan-friendly diet, but given that cats primarily eat meat the idea of promoting a vegan diet that isn’t heavily monitored and noted by their vet is an awful look for the vegan community and Lemmy. You absolutely cannot expect people to just treat this as a moderation issue, because at its most fundamental level it’s about whether lemmy.world supports content that is harmful to animals.

I said it elsewhere here, and since people don’t like it being raised I’ll say it again: shit like this wouldn’t fly on Reddit. Lemmy has a poor reputation on the Fediverse for housing extreme opinions, and this debacle really won’t help its reputation as a fed-friendly alternative to Reddit. Saying “go back to Reddit” just highlights the problem more, and is probably why there are plenty of posts on the Fediverse asking why Lemmy is so hostile, or why it’s nowhere near as friendly as many communities on Mastodon.

The question is at the root of which moderator’s actions are correct. There’s a reactionary bias from tons of Reddit-fugees that came out of vegan bashing and anti-vegan hysteria which we see crop up repeatedly.

It can be difficult to distinguish between people sincere, abet misguided, beliefs and outright trolls. And moderation takes a significant temporal and emotional toll. “Vegans are killing their pets/kids!!!” is a popular panic phrase intended to gin up hostility. Consequentaly, the mods in these communities are playing endless wack-a-mole with trolls who just want to conflate veganism with an esoteric form of cruelty.

Establishing a bright line of appropriate content is important for good moderation. But to know where that line is, you need some degree of objection information.

Which brings us back to the fundamental question of whether safe, reliable vegan cat food exists (spoilers: it’s been around for decades). But if you don’t accept that premise, you’re going to see any mod censorship as some diabolical cat killing agenda.

go back to fucking reddit

Yeah, fuck reddit, and fuck u/spez.

Er, am I doing this right?

Difficulty level of Reddit is too high, since people would actually need to, you know, read stuff, in order to have “read it.”

Vegans win this time.

https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/

Benevo Cat foods contain all the nutrients an adult cat needs, including a wide range of vitamins (including A, B, D, E, K), essential fatty acids and taurine, without the need for slaughterhouse meat. Although obligate carnivores in the wild, domestic cats still need nutrients they would normally source from prey. Thankfully Benevo Cat contains all those nutrients in a bioavailable kibble.

Benevo Cat is a professional cat food, created by Benevo in 2005, formulated and checked by independent animal nutritionists to meet the AAFCO(USA) and FEDIAF(Europe) guidelines for animal nutrition.

We’ve had safe and healthy variants of vegan cat food for 20 years. Trying to elevate the question to animal abuse speaks entirely to personal ignorance.

Thanks, we’re always trying to do better and learn from our mistakes.

The only person with integrity I see here is the admin that initially removed the comments promoting animal abuse. Those that backed down and restored the comments caved to the pressure of an extreme, insular community and sided against *defenseless animals. I see no integrity in their actions no matter how they try to spin it.

Absolutely agree. This is an issue where it could have easily been covered up, but the leadership opted for total transparency.

They admitted the mistake, showed how it happened, and worked out an agreement with the community to avoid the problem in the future.

Forget comparison to corporate media (it’s not even close), I’ve seen issues in the Fediverse handled 100x worse than this.

Mods aside, the Reddit app is still garbage

This is all PR, lemmy.world didnt make good with their vegan community, they just want everyone else to think they are fair and level headed. Reddit has the exact same PR, except they were trying to make money openly, while most assume lemmy.world admins are losing or breaking even (whether thats true or not).

Put simply, reddit was trying to collect more profit from their users one way, and lemmy.world is trying to collect its donations in another, but PR servers both cases.

Doesnt really matter theres plenty of space elsewhere for the vegan community, which is the beauty of the fediverse.

We’re just trying to do the best we can to consider everyone involved and what we can do better going forward. We’re all just volunteers trying to keep things positive and stable. 🙏 ❤️

Thanks!

Would be fine as an option that could be enabled, especially for larger communities, but an instance run by a single person wouldn’t be able to host communities if it was a built in requirement for all communities.

Solid idea. One consequence of this would be the possible delay in removing material that really should be removed as fast as possible, though.

In theory a good idea, but there is lots of content that needs to be gone serverside asap - either because it’s CP, otherwise illegal, spam that clogs down the Fediverse/can even be used to DoS a server,etc.

I was just thinking about this: peer review admin actions. A first admin could initiate the action, then the peer review could be assigned randomly to another admin - randomly so that admins can’t create specific cartels to team up on specific topics.

More backstage work for admins who are NOT paid. No.

I think a 3 person team is better. 1 mod/admit marks something for moderation. 2 other mods need to agree to mod. If 1 of the mods disagrees, it stays.

This is inspired by true events in September 1983, where a russian command post in charge of their nuclear weapons caught on radar 4 incoming missles, supposedly fired from America. The captain in charge turned his key to fire every nuke they had at America. The second in command turned his key as well. The third in command refused. His logic was if America was going to fire nukes, why fire exactly 4 nukes and only 4 nukes, all targeting the same location? Would it not make sense to deplay thousands if you’re trying for a surprise ambush?

Those nukes that America fired? Clouds. The Earth was at just the right rotation for 30 minutes to confuse the russian radar into interpreting 4 missle shaped clouds as solid objects.

America was almost turned to dust for no reason, 2 weeks before I was born. Because of some happy fluffy white clouds, that even Bob Ross will admit almost DID cause an accident!

So yeah. Maybe we do a 3 mod system.

Personally, I like this idea. But it can be equally abused if two admins colluded to agree with each other. But, I think it’s at least better than nothing.

I would imagine this would need to be done at the software level to be most effective. You should request this sort of feature from the Lemmy team to integrate into both the backend and the UI.

If you do create issues for this request, you should post back here (or whatever related community) so people can upvote the issues to show the devs we really want the feature.

A slight modification, it could be implemented as a suggested action where the admins (or mods) can ask for a second opinion when they feel it’s appropriate.

That way urgent actions can happen right away, and potentially controversial actions can be discussed. It should solve the problem without forcing a specific workflow

Upvoting and commenting for visibility, this is a great idea. Though concur with snooggums below that it would need to be an opt-in option.

Thanks! When we fall down, we get back up and try to learn from our mistakes to do better next time ✌️

Can we not relaunch the argument that turned into a black hole, pulling everyone on Lemmy into a hellish void? Let’s keep the cat diet discussion in c/vegan, c/cats or some other devoted sublemmy.

I don’t agree with the outcome of THIS situation, but I DO agree with the idea that mods and admins are not gods on the fediverse. I like the concept of checks and balances, even if I disagree with the ruling. The fact that it’s not a god complex one person rule is better than what reddit has.

Can you elaborate? I want to understand.
I am not involved in the action above but it seems fair.

I think discussing the emerging field of plant based and synthetic replication of a carnivores diet using real research is pretty clear cut not animal abuse just because it can be animal abuse if not done carefully and because you say so. (Also, I’m not a vegan and I have never fed my cat vegan food, you guys are just obnoxious though)